Author Topic: I GUESS I JUST DO NOT GRASP THE THOUGHT  (Read 719 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline williamlayton

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15415
I GUESS I JUST DO NOT GRASP THE THOUGHT
« on: January 14, 2005, 02:34:05 AM »
For a long time now I have been trying to understand what/why some folks are dead set against gun ownership, period.
I do not think they stop to understand what they are all about or what they are trying to accomplish.
Are they trying to outlaw death with laws?
Are they trying to abolish violent deaths with laws?
Are they trying to abolish accidental deaths with laws?
Are they trying to prevent crimes of whatever nature?
It would appear to me that we have need of them to define what they are trying to accomplish. It would appear to me that we, as gun owners, should find a way to communicate with these folks. Try and find a way for them to explain what they are all about and see if there is a way to get our points across without offending and see if they would think about it.
Blessings
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline magooch

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6644
I GUESS I JUST DO NOT GRASP THE THOUGHT
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2005, 04:00:02 AM »
William, you are proposing a fools mission.  You can not reason with people who lack the ability to reason; you expect sense to come from people who lack sense.  

I think we have to resign ourselves to fighting continuously, constantly, and consistently against the simple minded, lame do gooders who do not understand liberty and freedom.
Swingem

Offline DWARREN123

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 157
I GUESS I JUST DO NOT GRASP THE THOUGHT
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2005, 04:34:53 AM »
People make laws that tell you what you can not do to try to control other people, they know better what you need!

Offline jrcanoe

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 71
I GUESS I JUST DO NOT GRASP THE THOUGHT
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2005, 06:56:07 AM »
Don't put much effort in changing views of adults, you will be lucky to reeducate 1 in 100. Kids are where hope and the future lie. Take a kid to the range. I have yet to to take a child shooting that didn't ask when we could go again. Right now I am planning a Young & Old Team informal match. The main rule is that all firearms must be older than the shooter. My Daughter will shoot my tricked out 10-22 that I bought before she was born. I will shoot My Grandfathers Winchester. I have several of my shooting buddies who are scouring family and friends for a child to shoot their Coopers. My goal is to get some young blood at our clubs other matches instead of the usual 15 to 20 "Old Dudes" (as my daughter calls us). I plan to make it really hard for adults and easy for the kids with a second round of fire to clean up what their Adult left. I expect the match will be won or lost at the clean up after the Old Man Phase. It will be fun to watch my friends try to shoot eggs and paintballs at 50 with Iron sights and watch their kid thing explode them with their high power scopes.

Offline unspellable

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 776
Gun Control
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2005, 08:18:07 AM »
The first flaw in the thinking behind the question above is that



                           Gun control is not about guns!

Offline ShadowMover

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 355
  • Gender: Male
I GUESS I JUST DO NOT GRASP THE THOUGHT
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2005, 08:42:26 AM »
'unspellable' has it exactly right; it is not about safety, it is about political power. Don't be taken in by the shell game and the misdirection of the professional media and politicians. Government's first motive isn't to serve, it's to stay in power.  The media is just an invisible arm of the government. The 'educational' system is also a tool to keep everyone controllable.

Offline williamlayton

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15415
I GUESS I JUST DO NOT GRASP THE THOUGHT
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2005, 11:45:11 AM »
Well, I must admit to agreeing with the thought concering it not being about guns, well, er IF you read into my question. I am really concerned
about the concept of thinking laws will make everything OK. It is not a new concern of mine, just one that has simmered too long without adding water and I had to flame or something to get it out.
Blessings
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline unspellable

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 776
Laws
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2005, 12:36:18 PM »
I sometimes wonder...  There is tendency for legislative critters to pass all sorts of laws to fix perceived problems.  Typically the problem is non-existent or the law doesn't address it.  This happens at all levels of government.  The reasons why this is so are probably complex and would make a good study.

There are zillions of examples.

A local example is the animal control ordinances here which have a laundry list of "vicious" animals that are illegal to keep.  Most of the animals on the list are quite harmless, some are rather standard items in the pet trade across the country, some roam loose in the boonies around here, etc.  For example it is illegal to keep a rubber boa as it is defined as a vicious animal.  This snake reaches a length of about two and a half feet and its cheif claimn to fame is that it is just about the most innocous critter known to man.  When backed into a corner and prodded with a stick they have been known to roll themselves into a ball.  What vicious behaviour!

On the other hand my wife was walking up the street with our two dogs when a large dog ran out from a back yard and attacked our Scottie.  Left a  number of holes in his hide.  But dogs are OK.  (Not that I have anything against dogs, it's just that they pose a greater risk to life and limb than rubber boas.)

Offline fe352v8

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 700
  • Gender: Male
  • Evolve or become extinct
I GUESS I JUST DO NOT GRASP THE THOUGHT
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2005, 12:57:41 PM »
Out lawing an inanimate object is not going to solve the problem.  It is far easier to blame a thing then a person.  The problem does not lie with the weapon used but with the person's choice that the committing of the crime is a logical and rational choice in the first place choice.  In one of the first recorded murders in history a rock was used to bash in one brothers head by another; would out lawing or severely limiting the availability of rocks have stopped this crime?  While you may never stop the "crimes of passion", finding out why someone thinks that crime is the logical option might cut down on some of it.  In the end however the person who commits a crime has to be held accountable.  But, theres another problem nobody is responsible for their own actions, at least not if they can blame somebody else.

jon
life is no joke but funny things happen

jon

Offline Shorty

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1098
I GUESS I JUST DO NOT GRASP THE THOUGHT
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2005, 01:01:05 PM »
Magooch got it best, I think.  If you were to propose to an antigun person, "What if all guns suddenly disappeared?  Would crime, murder and war end?"  He would answer, "No, but it couldn't be done on such a scale."  Then remind him of cases in history when entire armies or cities of 10,000 were wiped out with nothing but sharp knives!  :roll: Then see if you're talking to a reasoning person.  :wink:

Offline dave375hh

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • *****
  • Posts: 516
I GUESS I JUST DO NOT GRASP THE THOUGHT
« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2005, 03:57:49 AM »
I hesitate to inform you, but the Anti gun yoyo's have no intrest in crime control, saftey, or any of the other socialistic claptrap they belch forth. It's about control and power. They can gain votes by passing any anti-gun law while the Republican's have control of the legislatures. Any time an anti-gun law passes the gun folkes(that's us) get PO'd at the republicans for letting it happen. Some even vow to vote demoncrap as a payback for the precieved failure. That's what the real bottom line is. If the anti's were really anti-gun they wouldn't allow their bodyguards to be armed.  Anti-gun legislation is really just a tool they use to attack the Republicans. Yes I know there are anti-gun republicans. In any gathering of people there are a certin number idiots and fools
Dave375HH

Offline Bikenut

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 155
I GUESS I JUST DO NOT GRASP THE THOUGHT
« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2005, 02:45:07 PM »
I have a theory that I'll try my best to explain...

Most definitely gun control isn't about guns but is about control. Those who push for gun control are really petty little people who's interest is only to be in power and make other people do what they tell them to do. Petty little despots. Most of the people of this ilk can also be found trying to run other people's lives in many different ways besides guns.... including being minor tyrants in their own homes. These people have somehow decided they are more intelligent, more moral, and a higher order of person than the "ordinary" man. They are arrogant to the core and a waste of oxygen.

However, there is another sub-set of people who are anti gun... the people who support the efforts of those petty little people intent on bolstering their own ego by forcing others to do what they tell them. This sub-set can be found everywhere and are the people who think guns are evil and cause harm simply because they exist. Garden variety gun haters so to speak. It is this group of people who are running on fear. Not fear of the gun itself, but fear of the criminals who use them. Now that would seem logical but it isn't.... that fear is so pervasive that these people DO NOT WANT TO CONFRONT A CRIMINAL IN ANY WAY AT ANY TIME. So instead of confronting the criminal and the evil deeds they do these people focus on the tool used mistakenly thinking that if there are no tools there will be no criminals therefore no violence and they will be safe.

I pity these people because they aren't even aware that they are playing a mind game on themselves. Nor can they see they are being used by the power hungry control freaks. It is unthinkable for them to stand up and recognise the reality that there will always be criminals and those criminals will always find a tool of some sort to use. It is also unthinkable for these people to face the fact that they, as an individual, are the only one responsible to keep themselves safe... because if they were to do that confronting the criminal face to face would have to happen. The very thing they are terrified of doing.

We have all met people like this. Normally intelligent people capable of making sound decisions and judgements... except about guns. That inner fear of confronting a criminal, of personally taking action against a criminal, takes over and their eyes glaze...... They also cannot seem to grasp the concept that criminals, by definition, do not obey any laws. They assume that because they themselves obey the law then everyone obeys the law. To them a law is an unbreakable thing all by itself and has the power to force everyone to obey. These people also think that because they pay money to a selct few to protect them  they will live their lives in total safety. Poor self deluded fools. They are to be pitied for they live in a world of self delusion that they are "safe" and that, since there are cast in stone laws nothing will ever happen to them.

Our justice system also reflects this fear of confronting the criminal. Once a criminal is in the system all the procedures are designed to protect the criminal AND NOTHING IS DONE TO PROTECT THE VICTIM. It would appear that it is more important to not annoy the criminal than it is to mete out punishment. Even the justice system is afraid of making the criminal angry. What started out as a system with checks and balances to insure that no innocent person is punished has become a system wherein no one is brave enough to punish the guilty with punishment that fits the crime. Nor is that system brave enough to force the criminal to leave the victim alone or to recompense the victim. Sure monetary judgements are imposed on criminals in the victim's favor but collecting those monies is problematical.

In short, I think (my opinion) the entire gun control thing is a driven by people with a hunger for power and control who use the fear of the masses as a means to gain that power and control.

Both groups of anti gun people disgust me.
The longer I live, the older I get.
Neither has anything to do with wisdom.

Offline Eric N.

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 76
I GUESS I JUST DO NOT GRASP THE THOUGHT
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2005, 11:07:17 PM »
Hmmmmm,could it be that dead tax payers dont pay taxes? They need us!!  Next,the draft, its coming.  What say you?

Offline williamlayton

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15415
I GUESS I JUST DO NOT GRASP THE THOUGHT
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2005, 11:50:24 PM »
All for a draft.
Blessings
TEXAS, by GOD