Author Topic: New to reloading - Need help selecting equipment  (Read 828 times)

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Offline hobbyist

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New to reloading - Need help selecting equipment
« on: January 25, 2005, 03:34:42 AM »
Guys,

I am thinking about getting into reloading, primarily for rifle ammo but maybe later for handgun ammo as well.  I don’t expect to be a volume shooter, primarily since I don’t have the time.

I am thinking about starting with either a Dillon 550 or RCB Rock Chucker supreme (probably RC due to price difference) press and picking and choosing the best (for accuracy and user friendliness) components rather than buying a kit.  I will be reloading for 300WM, 308, 7-08, 270Win, 223, and in handgun rounds 40SW, 357/38, and 9mm.

Any thoughts on components, which one is a “Must have” and which one is “Nice to have”?  and what is your favorite?

Thanks in advance for your help.

Offline Doc Killpatient

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« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2005, 05:05:09 AM »
This is my opinion:

I strongly suggest that you walk before you run.  Buy a single stage press and several different loading manuals and take your time.  Read the first part of the books even if you think you know how to reload.  Start with the minimum loads and work up from there.  I started with a Rock Chucker several years ago and moved to a Dillon 550 only about 2 weeks ago.  Sure, a single stage is slower, but, you will be able to learn the "feel" of each stage of reloading.  
     I still use my single stage press for rifle loads and working on new pistol loads.  I think the most important part of this thread is reading the reference books and following what they say to the letter.  Start low and then if necessary move up.  
     Reloading is a great hobby, and for me a time to myself away from the hustle and bustle of daily living.  If I can not give 100% of my attention to my reloading then I will do it at a later time.  I can't tell you the last time I bought ammo off the shelf.  You will enjoy it, just take your time.  Good luck.  My .02
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Offline Rmouleart

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« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2005, 05:15:34 AM »
I agree with the above poster, learn to walk first, good sound advise. Aim small hit small. RAMbo.

Offline ricciardelli

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« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2005, 05:51:01 AM »
Terminology...

If by "components" you are referring to pieces of reloading equipment, then I still suggest the RCBS Rock Chucker Supreme Kit and the RCBS Accessory Kit.  The only thing you will find duplicated is the loading block, of which you will eventually need 10 or 12 of them anyway.

However, the term "component" is generally reserved for cartridge parts, such as powder, primer, bullet and case.

If that is the manner you are using the term, then only you can figure out what "components" will work best in your firearms.

Offline bigjeepman

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« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2005, 12:40:06 PM »
RCBS reloading equipment most definately. Great customer service to back up their great products.
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Offline hobbyist

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« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2005, 02:15:59 PM »
Doc, Ricciardelli, Thanks for the ideas.  I do like to start with a single stage also, and I thought AT550 was a single stage as well.  At any rate, due to the price difference and similar qualities I will probably start with RC supreme.  As for term “components”, I do mean reloading equipment and would be very interested in your thoughts as to what to pick.  What is included in the RCBS accessory Kit?  I don’t mind outgrowing my press, but I don’t want to outgrow the other equipment.

Cabela’s lists a RCBS Advances RC Supreme Master kit that is pricey ($499) but seems to include equipments that will leave room for me to grow into.  What do you think?

Offline ricciardelli

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« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2005, 05:12:57 PM »
Teh RCBS Rock Chucker Supremem Kit contains:
The Rock Chucker Supreme Press
5-0-5 scale
Uniflow powder measure
Speer reloading manual
Hand priming tool
Hex key set
Case Loading block
Case Lube Kit
Powder funnel
Deburring tool

Teh Accessory Kit contains:
Powder measure piggyback stand
Powder trickler
Primer pocket brush combo
Another case loading block
Stainless steel dial caliper
Small and Large case neck brushes

With good shopping technique you should be able to get the Reloading Kit for under $230, and the Accessory for under $70.

Offline ButlerFord45

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« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2005, 12:59:37 AM »
My opinions have changed drastically in the last couple of years.  I've for the last thirty years been one of the Rock Chuckers biggest fans, no longer.  Don't waste your time and money on high dollar single stage presses!!   If you're not sure that reloading is for you, or you just want to load a few rounds occasionally, the $20 Lee C press will turn out the same ammo.  If reloading is not for you, you're out less than coffee and donuts from Mikki D's for a week.  If, however, you decide like many of us, that reloading is a hobby in itself and the budget is a consideration, the Dillion 500 AT is the press for you, you can add components as money allows.  If money's not a problem then go straight to a Dillon 550.  It will do anything the single stage will do while you're developing the load you like and when you find that load you have the option of leaving all the dies and adjustments as is and cranking out a tub full of ammo in very short order.  Besides, Dillon's customer service takes a back seat to no one, so don't let that sway you.

Just lookin' out for your best intrest
Butler Ford
He who does not punish evil, commands it to be done.-Leonardo da Vinci
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Offline warf73

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« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2005, 01:35:02 AM »
ButlerFord45

Is completely right.
My good friend went right into the Dillon 550.
I was over at his house helping him when he needed it.
For the first few months he used the press like a single stage (very easy to do take out the locator pins) press.
Once you are walking then put the pins in and RUN.

Best part is once you get everything set its done.

Warf
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Offline Rmouleart

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« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2005, 03:00:09 AM »
Nothing beats a single stage Rockchucker,Life time guarantee,customer service is top notch. I don't care what anybody says, If you are only reloading for your self, there is no need for progressive, Single stage is the word, thats how you can achieve the best reloaded ammo, do everything in single stages, cut no corners, in-hear to all specs,chamfer and debur, and cut to size all cases, uniformity is no#1  hand trickle every load, seat and crimp in two stages, top it off with a lee factory crimp for uniformity, bottom line I'm reloading to get the most accurate load for the gun I'm loading for, I will also only buy high quality components, develop the best bullets you ever will shoot, best groups you will ever see,if all is done right, customize each load for the game you are hunting, this is why I reload, and because I just love shooting. Aim small hit small. RAMbo.

Offline Val

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« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2005, 03:55:40 AM »
I have a RCBS Turret press which I bought for my first press. I like it very much and has some advantages over a single stage. You can mount more than one die on it which means if you have to go back to bring another case up (maybe find a small crack in one, happens occasionally) you don't have to remove and readjust the die you are currentlu using.
Hunting and fishing are not matters of life or death. They are much more important than that.

Offline ButlerFord45

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« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2005, 03:59:41 AM »
Quote from: Rmouleart
Nothing beats a single stage Rockchucker,Life time guarantee,customer service is top notch. I don't care what anybody says, If you are only reloading for your self, there is no need for progressive, Single stage is the word, thats how you can achieve the best reloaded ammo, do everything in single stages, cut no corners, in-hear to all specs,chamfer and debur, and cut to size all cases, uniformity is no#1  hand trickle every load, seat and crimp in two stages, top it off with a lee factory crimp for uniformity, bottom line I'm reloading to get the most accurate load for the gun I'm loading for, I will also only buy high quality components, develop the best bullets you ever will shoot, best groups you will ever see,if all is done right, customize each load for the game you are hunting, this is why I reload, and because I just love shooting. Aim small hit small. RAMbo.

3000 45 acp
2000 45 Colt
500  357 Mag
500  38 Spec
250  30-06
150  243
500  30-30
250  45-70

Load that on your single stage two or three times a year, then come back and tell me I've no need for a progressive.
I don't consider myself a hi-volume shooter, I know several that will get close to that in a couple of months.
RCBS has wonderful customer service, but it's no better than Dillons
Do you really believe that removing and replacing a die is more accurate than never moving it?
You've listed the steps for excellent ammunition, why do you think it can't be done identically on a progressive press?
There are times that you want to produce ammunition that will put ten rounds in the same hole, others you just need volume of quality ammo.  With the 550 you can have your cake and eat it too.
At the moment I have 5 presses mounted on a dedicated 8' reloading bench, to include a Rock Chucker,  I'd trade the whole thing (bench included) for a Dillon 550.
Butler Ford
He who does not punish evil, commands it to be done.-Leonardo da Vinci
An armed society is a polite society-Robert A. Heinlein
Only the dead have seen the end of war- Plato
Lord, make my words as sweet as honey
tomorrow I may have to eat them- A lady's sweatshirt

Offline hobbyist

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« Reply #12 on: January 26, 2005, 06:40:36 AM »
Guys,  This is a great exchange of ideas and experiences and I appreciate it very much.  :D
 
But I think we are getting away from my basic question.  Since I don’t need a progressive right now, I am going to start with an RC supreme or AT500.  I may sell/trade/upgrade my single action to a progressive as/if my needs increase.  However, I don’t want to “trade-up” my other reloading equipment.  What/Who’s equipment should I buy if don’t want to buy a kit?

Scale (digital or Analog), Trickler (need one?)
Powder measure, and dispenser (need one?)
Priming tool,
Case trimming tool,
Deburring tool,
Loading block,
Dies,
Case Cleaner (need one?)
Others

Offline Questor

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« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2005, 06:52:43 AM »
I'm with Butlerford on this one. When thousands of rounds are being loaded, it makes good sense to use a progressive.  I also disagree with the often repeated notion that a progressive is an advanced tool that only a seasoned reloader should use. With proper care in setup and use, there is no reason to avoid progressives if the volume of ammo you produce warrants it.  

If it weren't for progressives, I wouldn't be shooting bullseye today because there's only so much time I will devote to the onerous chore of loading ammo.  Some like reloading as a hobby, but there are those of us who like to do other things with our free time.
Safety first

Offline Dusty Miller

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« Reply #14 on: January 26, 2005, 07:06:40 AM »
It always comes down to a matter of personal preference.  I've been using the Rock Chucker for over ten years and for my needs it has served me well.  However, I added four guns to my safe last year including one new caliber so I'm beginning to think that I'd be spending more time at the range and less at the reloading bench if I had a progressive.  Maybe si, maybe no.  Time will tell.
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Offline Leftoverdj

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« Reply #15 on: January 26, 2005, 08:24:21 AM »
I'm a tinkerer. Most of my loading is done in batches of 20 or so at time. When I do settle on a load, I may run off a few hundred.  I'm loading for 20 odd cartridges and don't feel like changing over a progressive every time I switch. Rockchucker meets my needs perfectly.

Some years back, I was a serious PPC shooter. Had a progressive then because loading 10,000 .38 WC a year on a single stage would bore me to tears. If I get back into something that requires a huge supply of two or three cartridges, I'll get another progressive.
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Offline Rmouleart

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« Reply #16 on: January 26, 2005, 08:57:13 AM »
How can anybody say a progressive is better than a single stage, a lot faster, but not better bye far, Progressives you dump your powder, not efficient enough for me, what happens when you get some powder to hangup in your dump, how do you know that happens?and then the next case receives more powder. Ball powders are known for this. I hand trickle last 3% of every load, this way I know I have the exact amount of powder in the case. The way I look at it, if I was to make 1000 rounds I would still do everything on a single stage, why,because it is more efficient to do things in single stages than at once, the way I look at it if I can't finely tune each load to perfection, why bother reloading if you can't beat a factory load, When I shoot my bullets over a chrono, I might get ten FPS difference, tell me with using a progressive you can get those results all the time,you can't, been there done that, if I don't get those results, I did not take my time. This is the reason I reload is to perfect the round I'm shooting for the game Im hunting, then its all up to me to perform. I like to take my time and closely pay attention to detail, I'm a extremest and a perfectionist, I understand this is over and above how most people are, but that me, to be the best I can be at all times, that means do everything the best I can do it, no cutting corners. Aim small hit small. RAMbo.

Offline ButlerFord45

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« Reply #17 on: January 26, 2005, 11:08:41 AM »
Quote from: Rmouleart
How can anybody say a progressive is better than a single stage, .....



I've reread this thread twice, and nowhere can I find any reference to a progressive being "Better" than a single stage, just more versatile.  If you want to deprime and size a batch of brass, then put the sizing die in and have at it.  If you want to prime by hand, do so.  If you don't want to use a powder measure on the machine, don't.  You want to seat the bullet and use a special crimp die, fine, you can use two stations, or just one if you want. You can use the press just like any single stage press.  When you have a need to crank out a bunch of bullets, put everything together, make the adjustments and go to it, you can have a thousand rounds of ammunition that you've worked out for your gun in just a couple of hours.
Where is the down side to this????
Butler Ford
He who does not punish evil, commands it to be done.-Leonardo da Vinci
An armed society is a polite society-Robert A. Heinlein
Only the dead have seen the end of war- Plato
Lord, make my words as sweet as honey
tomorrow I may have to eat them- A lady's sweatshirt

Offline ButlerFord45

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« Reply #18 on: January 26, 2005, 11:21:14 AM »
The 500AT is upgradeable just by adding components.
I'm still using the Lee Auto Prime I got in '79, some folks have reported having problems with them, I have never had any.
There is one manufacturer  that makes scales for several companys, I'm sorry, but I cant remember who it is at the moment.  Electronic or Balance Beam,  that's pretty subjective, I like Balance Beams.  I'd recommend that you don't saddle yourself with one of the ones that only weigh to 500 gr or less, you will eventually wish you could go heavier, may as well spend the extra 20-30 bucks now and not have to buy a new scale later.
Case trimmer, probably not necessary yet.
Powder trickler-deffinately!!  I have a RCBS but anyones should be ok
Primer pocket cleaner- a must- again mines RCBS
Flash hole uniformer-I believe in them, specially when you're looking for accuracy
Deburing/chamfering tool, you bet, I use RCBS
Case trimmer-I'd say you could live without it for a while
Neck trimmer-see case trimmer
Dies, I've only used RCBS, Lee, Dillon and Hornady I've never had any problem with any of them.  I do dislike the rubber o-ring on the Lees, but can be replaced for about two bucks and you've still spent less than on the other dies.
Powder measure-Not a lot of difference in quality except the Lee, I personally don't like it.  Would depend on what type of press you got.

Sorry, didn't mean to ignore you're original question.  :oops:
Butler Ford
He who does not punish evil, commands it to be done.-Leonardo da Vinci
An armed society is a polite society-Robert A. Heinlein
Only the dead have seen the end of war- Plato
Lord, make my words as sweet as honey
tomorrow I may have to eat them- A lady's sweatshirt

Offline hobbyist

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« Reply #19 on: January 26, 2005, 12:01:15 PM »
I was wondering when are we going to discuss other equipment besides the press. :lol:

Offline ButlerFord45

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« Reply #20 on: January 26, 2005, 01:06:15 PM »
:grin:  Ok, you're also gonna need a brush of some type to clean the inside of the necks, a bore brush works just fine.
You can load for a long time with hot water and soap cleaning of the cases but a tumbler was awfully nice when I got one.
For other than straight walled pistol cases(use carbide dies) you'll need some means to lube the cases for sizing.  You can make your own with a small container and paper towels, or small cloth, or you can use a spray lube, which is much simpler.
An ABSOLUTE MUST is at least TWO reloading manuals!!!  I have always recomended Lyman as the first manual.  When you read it, you'll see why.  It also gives load data different manufacturers powder and different manufacturers bullets.
The Lee manual has a lot of really good information but it isn't as easy to sift through, so I don't really recomend it as a starter manual.
The second manual, I'd recommend the manual by the bullet manufacturer you plan on using.  
The third( and freebe) powder manufacturers have load data on line that you can download the entire book and email them for a hard copy of the same book.  These are not as complete as the ones they sell, but they make a good third or forth manual until you decide what you like best.   By this time, you'll not be needing us for general questions anymore and you can share your successes and failures with the next new guy.
Butler Ford
He who does not punish evil, commands it to be done.-Leonardo da Vinci
An armed society is a polite society-Robert A. Heinlein
Only the dead have seen the end of war- Plato
Lord, make my words as sweet as honey
tomorrow I may have to eat them- A lady's sweatshirt

Offline hobbyist

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« Reply #21 on: January 27, 2005, 03:35:51 AM »
Cabela’s has an AT500 kit for $260 that includes:

1. Eliminator balance scale
2. Primer flip tray,
3. Dial Caliper set
4. Bottle of spray-on lube

Is scale large enough? Should I buy the kit Or I buy a press from http://www.eguns.com/Dillon_Precision for $184 and the RCBS 10-10 scale?

Offline ButlerFord45

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« Reply #22 on: January 27, 2005, 06:14:57 AM »
I'm not famaliar with the dillon scale, you can load for a long time and never need the larger capacity, but eventually you're probably going to want one.  If the kit is less than the combined components, you could probably go for it and live with it.
I prime with the Auto Prime because not only the convenience, but I really believe you can feel the primers seat alot better than with the press.  If I want "One Hole" bullets, that is how I do it.  It has a built in primer fliper.
I'd still recomend that before you buy anything else, you get and read twice the Lyman loading manual.  It will answer many of the questions for you, sure they push lyman stuff, but the information applys to pretty much everyones equipment.  It will also raise more specific questions, that we can help with here, ie techniques, secrets, and other stuff learned through experience.
Butler Ford
He who does not punish evil, commands it to be done.-Leonardo da Vinci
An armed society is a polite society-Robert A. Heinlein
Only the dead have seen the end of war- Plato
Lord, make my words as sweet as honey
tomorrow I may have to eat them- A lady's sweatshirt

Offline Racepres

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« Reply #23 on: January 27, 2005, 06:29:49 AM »
I agree wholeheartedly w/ "get the Lyman manual" as well as an NRA publication called simply "handloading" Between them I think you can become "well informed"  $0.02 .... Marty
BTW the next most informative Publication I have  encountered is the Lee Manual

Offline hobbyist

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« Reply #24 on: January 28, 2005, 07:11:05 AM »
I want to thank everyone for their help and insight, especially Butler Ford for his patience to answer my less that than sophisticated questions on the subject.

Now, I am off to ordering the AT500 kit and the Lyman & Lee loading manual from Cabela's.

I'll Be Back :D   Mike

Offline ButlerFord45

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« Reply #25 on: January 28, 2005, 10:58:58 AM »
I didn't mean to minimalize the sophistication of your questions, it just sounded like you didn't have a good reloading manual yet.  They'll give you a far better idea of what's a must and what's a nice-to-have and why than I can.

Don't be a stranger, we want to know what you think and how the progress goes as well as answering questions.
Butler Ford
He who does not punish evil, commands it to be done.-Leonardo da Vinci
An armed society is a polite society-Robert A. Heinlein
Only the dead have seen the end of war- Plato
Lord, make my words as sweet as honey
tomorrow I may have to eat them- A lady's sweatshirt