.44 cast bullet sizing

[gcf]

Want to start loading hard cast in my 4" S&W 629, & have noticed a lot of variation in both size (.429 - .4315) & hardness.

My understanding is that proper bullet size for no fouling & good accuracy is based on throat & bore size.

If someone can shed a little light on the bullet / throat / bore size relationship (w/ additional comments on the hardness factor), it would SURE be appreciated!

[Leftoverdj]

gcf, you can get as complicated about this as you wanna, but I'm a "load some up and see" kinda guy. In general, you want a bullet that is a hard push fit through the cylinder throats.

I very rarely shoot full house magnum loads and when I do I want them gas checked and hard, 18 bhn+.  That's only time I want real hard bullets. Most of my shooting is done at about 1000 fps plus or minus a couple hundred fps. For that, plain base works fine, and WW+2% tin aged at least a week (c. 12 bhn) is the right hardness. Very hard bullets tend to lead at moderate pressure and velocity.

My approach would be to load the fattest bullets I had available and see how they did. I don't go messing with slugging and measuring until I know I have a problem.

[Lloyd Smale]

if your casting your own size them to .430 and cast them out of ww to start with and you cant go wrong. You may find that differnt alloys and different sized bullets shot a tad better or worse in a specific gun but thats a good starting place.

[sharps4590]

I've used Lyman #2  alloy for more years than I care to remember.  I have two 44 Spl., one a 696 S & W and the other a Colt New Frontier.  Both shoot very well with bullets sized to .430.  Both Keith and Venturino address the cylinder chamber mouth/forcing cone/bore dia. relationship thoroughly and I'd recommend either or both of their books for info.  They explain it better than I can.  Essentially, if your cylinder mouths are smaller than your bore the bullet kinda rattles down the bore and accuracy suffers.

Vic

[gcf]

gcf, you can get as complicated about this as you wanna, but I'm a "load some up and see" kinda guy. In general, you want a bullet that is a hard push fit through the cylinder throats.

Thanks for the input. Tryed the hard push method w/ a .430 sized Hrndy 240JHP-XTP. No go / no cigar. So I know that they are less then .430.

Tried to measure w/ a dial caliper, & kept coming up w/ .426. If that is correct, it seems a little snug. I've been told that a caliper is an unreliable tool to measure the throats, but I'm at a loss for a better idea....

I'm also wondering what the .44 bore diameter is supposed to be?

[gcf]

if your casting your own size them to .430 and cast them out of ww to start with and you cant go wrong. You may find that differnt alloys and different sized bullets shot a tad better or worse in a specific gun but thats a good starting place.

Actually, I am not currently casting, although if I can get a commercial cast bullet to group, I will be headed in that direction.

The reason I got started down this road in the first place (aside from the extreme hard cast enthusiasm on this forum), is that I have been less then satisfied w/ the accuracy results to date, w/ the 240 XTP...

[gcf]

I've used Lyman #2  alloy for more years than I care to remember.  I have two 44 Spl., one a 696 S & W and the other a Colt New Frontier.  Both shoot very well with bullets sized to .430.  Both Keith and Venturino address the cylinder chamber mouth/forcing cone/bore dia. relationship thoroughly and I'd recommend either or both of their books for info.  They explain it better than I can.  Essentially, if your cylinder mouths are smaller than your bore the bullet kinda rattles down the bore and accuracy suffers.

Vic

Do you have any idea what the cylinder throat measurement is on either of these guns - and a simple / accurate means to measure mine?

Additionally, do you know of an on line source for viewing either Keith's, or Venturino's specific comments? Thanks in advance?

[sharps4590]

gcf...I measured my S & W 696 because it's usally on my hip.  It's my "around the place" and "winter carry" piece.  The Colt is buried in the gun safe.  Anyway, 3 of the cylinders were .430 on the money and two were .4295 as best I could measure.  Does your caliper have the jaws, or whatever they're called, for measuring ID?  It's no problem with them.

I'm sorry but I don't know of any source on line for either Keiths or Venturinos comments.  I believe Venturino's is in his book "Shooting Single Action Colts" or something like that.  I didn't look for Keiths but I'm equally sure his comments and experiences are in "Sixguns".  I have seen a copy of "Sixguns" in our local library so that may be a source.  Both books are a good read and I think you'd enjoy having them in your library.  You might go to johnlinebaugh.com and see what John has to say.  I haven't been to his site for a year or more, maybe he addresses it.

If you aren't aware of them Mid-Kansas Cast Bullets offers a very good product and they used to be some less expensive than others.  I only use their bullets for my "keep Vic from becoming bear poop" loads.  Midway USA carries Mid-Kansas or you can order them direct.

Good luck.

Vic

[Leftoverdj]

Ideally, the barrel groove diameter is .429 and cylinder throat diameter is .430

To measure the throat diameter, you force an oversized pure lead slug, preferably a round ball, through the throat and measure it with a decent four place micrometer. You need to do this for each throat of a revolver. You also need to have the cylinder solidly supported so you don't stress the crane. An ordinary dial or vernier caliper is unlikely to give readings accurate enough to be worth bothering with. A .440 or .445 RB for a muzzle loader should work fine.