Author Topic: Contender won't fire  (Read 1462 times)

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Offline Doesniper

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Contender won't fire
« on: February 07, 2003, 09:16:31 AM »
I have a Contender that I bought a 222 barrel for. The problem is when I pull the trigger, the little block doesn't drop to let the hammer hit the firing pin. How do I fix this? Is this common?

Offline helobill

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Contender won't fire
« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2003, 10:40:18 AM »
I had the same problem with a frame that sat for 2 years (while I was in Puerto Rico and couldn't bring it with me). If you look at the exploded view you'll see the the 2 piece bolt set in the barrel lug has to meet up and center the interlock safety (To quote Mike Bellm's article on barrels flying open, the interlock safety is "the little butterfly shaped gipper the locking bolts turn when the barrel is locked up")With the barrel off, if you look where the bolts lock up with the frame you'll see this little butterfly shaped piece. In my case, it had almost frozen in place due to the lubrication that had been used on it and hardened (guess I didn't clean it as well as I thought before storing :( ). The spring pressure from the bolts was not sufficient to overcome this condition so the bolt spring just compressed. The barrel appeared to lock up normally because one side of the split bolt was still locking up, but you couldn't get the safety block to drop, because the interlock was still under it preventing it from dropping. I put some light oil on it and applied a little pressure on the interlock. Once it was free, I used a good degreaser to  completely clean the internal workings. I then used a dry lubricant and haven't had another problem. There could be more problems and some of them are addressed elsewhere on this board, Bellm's web site, and a bunch of other places, but if your frame does this with all barrels, it's probably either the interlock or a true frame problem (stretched to the point that the bolts CAN'T center the interlock??). If it's just this barrel, read Mike's article on barrels flying open. Hope that helps.
Helicopter Bill

Offline contendernut

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Contender won't fire
« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2003, 10:44:12 AM »
If the safety won't drop without a round in the chamber, the locking lugs are too tall and need either replacement or stoning.  There are two angles on the top of the lug.  Keep the same angle and work the rearmost portion until the lug will drop the safety.  

If it will drop it with an empty chamber, check you OAL and headspace of your rounds.
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Gary

Offline PaulS

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Re: Contender won't fire
« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2003, 08:34:44 AM »
Quote from: Doesniper
I have a Contender that I bought a 222 barrel for. The problem is when I pull the trigger, the little block doesn't drop to let the hammer hit the firing pin. How do I fix this? Is this common?


Doesniper,
This could be either of the problems posted above but it could also be that your cases are not sized properly for your chamber. If the barrel doesn't lock completely it will NOT fire. Try factory ammo in it - if that works then it is a problem with the cases.

PaulS
PaulS

Hodgdon, Lyman, Speer, Sierra, Hornady = reliable resources
so and so's pages on the internet = not reliable resources
Alway check loads you find on the internet against manuals.
NEVER exceed maximum listed loads.

Offline Robert

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Paul is right, headspace is the most common problem....
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2003, 09:09:44 AM »
...so dont start tearing anything apart till you have checked the headspace, and also length of your brass can cause this, as well as foreign matter in the chamber or throat.  First thing I would do is take a bore brush and clean the throat with a good solvent, 'Outers,Breakfree,etc'...then repeat this process with an oversize brush (.45 or something larger than the case) and thouroughly clean the chamber.
  Next, check your ammo.  Remove the barrel and insert a round into it.  It should drop easily into the chamber so that it is perfectly flush without forcing it in.  If it dosent, either the shoulder is not headspaced properly, or the brass is too long, or the bullet is seated to long.  All of these are easily fixed without tearing up your gun.
  If it dosent go in easily, try some different ammo.  Use a name brand like Remington or such, I have had cheap .223 ammo that would not chamber, I ran them through my die and they worked fine.
  If you want to check your brass, run a spent shell through your press, but do not load it, check the length of the brass and if neccesary trim it, then try it in the chamber.  If it goes in flush, it should work in your gun, you can even put a primer in and try it.
  Remember, it is not enough to neck-size brass with a Contender, you need to full length re-size brass to bump the shoulder back.  To do this you need to set your die in your press so that the shell holder comes all the way up to the bottom of the die and 'CAMS OVER' (you should feel a slight pressure at the top of the stroke, your instructions with your dies shoud tell you how to do this)
  Once you have checked these things, and it still dosent work....THEN you might have to worry about your locking lug height, and that can sometimes be adjusted  on your receiver.  Someone else mentioned that information on this process is available on Mike Bellm's website.  Dont start grinding on your locking lug.
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Offline KYODE

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Contender won't fire
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2003, 10:44:47 AM »
Robert, i'm afraid i'll have to disagree on sizing till the press cams over. it can lead to major problems in the contender. you just want to bump the shoulder back slightly, but not necessarily till the die bottoms out on the shellholder. in some circumstances, if you size till the press cams over, you can create excess headspace. firing a round with excess headspace will at least stretch the guts out of your brass. it can also lead to a complete head separation. i know, i blew a case in half once upon a time :oops: . i'm surprised the die companies don't give better instruction with their products. reading their instruction caused my mishap, of course coupled with my ignorance. i'm still trying to understand headspace in these things. :D

Offline Robert

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Kyode, how ....
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2003, 12:48:31 PM »
How would you full length size and bump the shoulder back if you dont 'cam-over'?  Eventually, the shoulder would start creeping and 'no boom'.
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Offline KYODE

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Contender won't fire
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2003, 01:26:46 PM »
:? well robert, i'm not a expert and like i said still learning. i guess it just depends on the die and mostly the chamber dimensions. you never want to size until the case drops below flush with the end of the barrel. also you can check barrel to frame gap with feeler gages. you then size your cases back about .001 less than the barrel to frame gap. i'm probably not the one that should try to explain this, me being a rookie.

Offline Robert

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Ok, guys, I stand corrected.
« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2003, 08:13:03 PM »
I read a long time ago that full length was necessary, and lack of it was the main reason for failure to lock up.  I have been doing it ever since.  So, now I have a new adventure ahead.  Hell, my .356 brass will probably last a lot longer if what you say is true.  Sorry if I have caused any confusion here.
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Offline KYODE

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Contender won't fire
« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2003, 02:19:38 AM »
feller's i've got a tricky situation right now on my 6br encore barrel. the last rounds i loaded are just too tight in the chamber. a couple didn't even want to let the hammer cock. the problem is caused by me partial resizing the brass. i didn't adjust the die down far enuff to resize the web of the case down just a little. i don't think neck sizing is gonna work in this barrel. my 7-08 loads are a little tight also. maybe i'm wrong but it seems like die adjustment is pretty critical. gramps, can you push the shoulder back with neck dies?

Offline PaulS

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Contender won't fire
« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2003, 06:57:27 AM »
Gramps,
I'm with you! I am a long time bolt action shooter and I know that the amount of room in the chamber that the cartridge doesn't fill will allow the case to expand into it. If a case is allowed to expand then gets pushed back over a period of time it will crack - less room longer lasting cases.

The other enemy of the brass case is pressure. If you are developing enough pressure with your load to expand the case beyond it's elastic limits (or to expand the chamber too far) case life will suffer.

Until recently all my Contenders were straight wall cases but I finally got a 30/30 barel and I have been "playing" with loads for it. I found that as long as I use moderate loads used in the lever actions I can neck size without problems. When I up the pressure to the Contender "specialty loads" I find that over expansion of the cases becomes a problem. I have adjusted my sizer to just size the neck and not actually touch the shoulder. In my loads I have not experienced any failure to chamber and fire. Cases are still in good condition and are not growing abnormally. I think some shooters try to make magnums out of all their Contenders and forget that some rounds are just too small to get 3000 fps from.

PaulS
PaulS

Hodgdon, Lyman, Speer, Sierra, Hornady = reliable resources
so and so's pages on the internet = not reliable resources
Alway check loads you find on the internet against manuals.
NEVER exceed maximum listed loads.

Offline PaulS

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Contender won't fire
« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2003, 07:10:51 AM »
Quote from: KYODE
feller's i've got a tricky situation right now on my 6br encore barrel. the last rounds i loaded are just too tight in the chamber. a couple didn't even want to let the hammer cock. the problem is caused by me partial resizing the brass. i didn't adjust the die down far enuff to resize the web of the case down just a little. i don't think neck sizing is gonna work in this barrel. my 7-08 loads are a little tight also. maybe i'm wrong but it seems like die adjustment is pretty critical. gramps, can you push the shoulder back with neck dies?


A true neck sizing die will NEVER push the shoulder back.
If the base of your cases (the web or just above it) is growing to the point where it no longer fits the chamber you are producing over-pressure loads. (regardless of what the manual might say)

You have a steel chamber and a brass case. The brass is elastic and it will expand to fit the chamber and then rebound to give .001 inch clearance UNLESS the chamber is expanding too. Over-pressure loads will cause the chamber to expand with the case and then as they both rebound the case can't shrink back to a point where it has clearance to move in the chamber. This is a pressure region that will NOT show any of the normal over-pressure signs - it just continues until the case no longer chambers. You will find that if you back your loads down this growth will stop and you will get longer case life and probably better accuracy.

You will have to full length size the over-expanded cases to fit the chamber again with a full length die - make small adjustments down until the case chambers again and leave it there.

PaulS
PaulS

Hodgdon, Lyman, Speer, Sierra, Hornady = reliable resources
so and so's pages on the internet = not reliable resources
Alway check loads you find on the internet against manuals.
NEVER exceed maximum listed loads.

Offline Doesniper

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I took a little off the lugs and it solved the problem
« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2003, 03:03:32 PM »
Thanks for the info.

Offline Doesniper

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I took a little off the lugs and it solved the problem
« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2003, 03:04:42 PM »
Thanks for the info.