Author Topic: Senate hearing exposes gun divide  (Read 423 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline FWiedner

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1686
Senate hearing exposes gun divide
« on: February 01, 2005, 03:58:29 AM »
Senate hearing exposes gun divide

By THOMAS SHAPLEY
SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER COLUMNIST

OLYMPIA -- Sen. Adam Kline, D-Seattle, herded seven gun bills through his Judiciary Committee Tuesday. And they were hardly the magnificent seven.

GOP Sens. Pam Roach of Sumner and Mike Carrell of Lakewood sponsored the two slam-dunk bills. Roach would waive the $10 late fee for members of the returning service members renewing concealed-pistol licenses. Carrell would add to the list of those denied the right to possess firearms anyone found not guilty of a felony by reason of insanity.

The other five bills, all sponsored by Democrats, were more complex, and contentious.

That hearing exposed a deep cultural divide in this state. On one side of the chasm are those who generally view firearms only as weapons and regard the possession of firearms as an unnecessary risk to public safety when there is law enforcement to ensure public safety. On the other side are those who view firearms as tools not only for hunting and sport, but also for self-protection because they can't always depend on the police to protect them.

The freedom to be kept safe from the danger of firearms confronts the freedom to possess firearms to keep safe from danger.

Kline would impose the defunct federal assault weapons ban on Washington state. This attempt to limit civil liberties seems out of tune with his very real heroics in defending civil liberties against untoward state and federal homeland security restrictions.

Sen. Jeanne Kohl-Welles, D-Seattle, is again trying to make unsafe storage of firearms a specific violation of the state's reckless-endangerment law. It's at least the means to an end, if not an immediate deterrent. It's like seat-belt laws. The threat of a ticket won't guarantee that lousy parents will buckle up their children, but it can make the rest of us parents far more likely to do so. The bill's merit is that adults whose recklessness in the way they store firearms brings death or injury to a child should be held just as responsible as those who are reckless behind the wheel of a car.

Kohl-Welles is also the prime sponsor of a bill to require background checks for all firearm purchases at gun shows. The vast, vast majority of those who buy and sell at these shows pose no threat to the peace or public safety. But without thorough background checks, there's a very real chance that firearms are being sold to people otherwise barred from buying guns, including felons, non-citizens, domestic-violence suspects and serious mental-health problems.

Requiring national background checks for all firearm purchases at gun shows is neither an unreasonable nor unjustified impairment of what the state constitution calls "the right of the individual citizen to bear arms in defense of himself, or the state. ..."

Sen. Darlene Fairley, D-Lake Forest Park, wants to ban firearms from the Legislative Building at the Capitol and to ban the sales of .50-caliber rifles. The only real effect of banning firearms from the Legislative Building would fall on those citizens who can carry guns there now -- those with a valid license to carry a concealed pistol. The law already bars anyone else from carrying a concealed firearm under the Rotunda or anywhere in public. Those who get licenses to carry concealed pistols do so to thwart crime, not foment it. Even a senator who was reportedly the target of a threat was outspoken in his opposition to the ban.

The .50-caliber rifle is indeed a big, powerful gun that fires a big, powerful bullet. But firearm experts say it is not necessarily more destructive or more capable of firing armor-penetrating rounds than some other firearms. It is neither a "weapon of mass destruction" nor an "artillery piece."

If there is any place to bridge the broad cultural gap over the firearm issue, it should be the Legislature. An early test of the Democrats' leadership will be whether they work to bridge that gap or broaden it.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinion/209677_shapley30.html
They may talk of a "New Order" in the  world, but what they have in mind is only a revival of the oldest and worst tyranny.   No liberty, no religion, no hope.   It is an unholy alliance of power and pelf to dominate and to enslave the human race.

Offline lostone1413

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 197
Senate hearing exposes gun divide
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2005, 07:36:21 AM »
Seems all you see are anti-gun bills coming up. For us Republicans with GWB in and control of both houses don't see anything coming up to benefit us. Guess the Republicans forgot us when the polls closed election day

Offline unspellable

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 776
Background checks at gun shows BS
« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2005, 08:16:20 AM »
The back ground check at gun shows is BS.  You drive some long distance to attend for one day at a two day affair.  You find the buy of a lifetime, that missing piece to finally round out your collection.  The back ground check takes three days and you're screwed.  Or worse it comes back purchase denied.  Remember Klinton claimed the back ground check stopped 100,000 purchases the first year?  99,990 of those were because of screw ups in the Federal records.  This happened to me when applying for my carry permit, took six weeks and much effort to get it ironed out.  I had a lot less trouble getting a secret security clearance.

The whole background check is there simply to harrass the honest gun buyer and make his life miserable.  It has nothing to do with keeping firearms out of the wrong hands.  Rember those 100,000 stops Klinton claimed?  Did you see or hear of any prosecutions?  Any petty low life I ever heard of bought his firearm off the street.  the big time drug traffickers have them smuggled into the country.

Offline alsatian

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 204
Senate hearing exposes gun divide
« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2005, 10:16:57 AM »
I don't like gun laws, generally.  I figure the good gun laws have already been made.  On the other hand, I think guns should be kept out of the hands of felons and insane people.  If it is a good idea for gun dealers to do this in their shops -- Bass Pro Shops -- then it is a good idea for this to be done by any gun dealers in any venue.  Maybe the right action is to fix the background check system if it is broken.  The real quality test of the law is not whether some individuals can cash in on the buy of a lifetime on a gun at a gun show, but whether the gun laws reasonably inhibit guns from getting into the hands of the bad guys.  A felon should not be able to walk into a gun show and readily buy a gun.  I think we would be wise to protest stupid gun laws (ballistic fingerprinting all guns, banning "assualt weapons", banning .50 BMG rifles, etc.) and not object to reasonable gun laws.

Relative to more and more gun laws in the context of the recent election, you have to ask yourself where the gun laws are being made -- blue state or red state?  I think Washington is a blue state, Democratic dominated state, right?  This doesn't make the buildup of more frivolous, ignorant gun laws palitable, but the US House and US Senate don't control what the legislature in Washington state can or cannot do.

I don't get the .50 cal laws.  When is a bank robber or drive-by shooter going to haul around a 30 LB gun that kicks so hard it will nearly break his shoulder after one shot?  It is ludicrous.  It is such a low risk to society, ditto the home securing of guns.  How many kids are killed by guns by accident in their homes?  I suspect precious few.  Fewer than are killed each year slipping in the tub, I imagine, and we aren't about to ban our kids taking baths or showers are we?

Offline unspellable

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 776
background checks
« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2005, 01:05:06 PM »
Felons don't walk into gun shows and buy guns.  They buy them off the street.  I'm not saying it NEVER happened but are you going to shaft 147,000 legitimate buyers to stop one felon when he can buy one on the street anyway?  You can buy a gun cheaper on the street than legit, why would the low life bother going to a gun show.  Most of them are so ignorant of the gun world they didn't even know there were such htings as gun shows until the anti-gun crowd tipped them off.

The back ground check stops only legitimate buyers.  It is asking the police for permission to buy a weapon.  That is the definiton of a police state.  We have a constitution that forbids such.  Not that anybody pays any attention to what the constitution says any more.

And they never compromise.  If I can pass a background check, why can't I buy a handgun out of state or throught the mail?

I'm old enough to remember times and places where you could walk in the door, plunk down the cash and walk out with  a handgun.  There didn't seem to be any big problem.

Gun control is not about guns.