Author Topic: Linotype ?'s (Read 1203 times)

Kingfish · « **on:** January 17, 2005, 01:08:01 PM »

I just bought 50lbs. of linotype from Louisiana for $33 but with the shipping cost, I payed almost a dollar a lb. Nice fellow to talk to and he wanted me to just drive down to pick up but I couldn't at this time. Anyway, I was wondering if I should melt it down into ingots or just leave it in the little pieces it came in? And should I be careful about fluxing it and scimming off the top? I do'nt want to scim off my tin or anything. Seems these little pieces would melt down quicker than a ingot and I could just weight out enough to melt down with my WW's or lead or range scrap. Some of the pieces are type but most are little square or long pieces that look like sheet metal. Any info would help, I've not worked with any Lino before and don't want to waste anything. Should be enough to sweeten several casting pots.

Bill

Darrell Davis · « **Reply #1 on:** January 17, 2005, 01:37:41 PM »

Hey there Kingfish,

Really don't see that it makes a lot of difference, kind of a "what floats your boat," type of thing.

It melts easy enough, and there is no reason not to add it to a melt of WW, melt it down, flux and skim as normal.

With all the small pieces it is easy to weigh and add the proper amount to a melt of WW.

I do like to premelt, flux, skim and clean my WW just because of the large amount of dirt and metal clips etc. found in used WW.

With Lino, I have not found anywhere close to that kind/amount of contamination.

Keep em coming! :wink:

talon · « **Reply #2 on:** January 17, 2005, 01:42:33 PM »

Kingfish, the US Postal Service's Priority mail system has a box about 9x9x12" that can hold 50# of that metal, if it's in small enough chunks, and it can be shipped anywhere in the US for about $8. You should look into that.

Flash · « **Reply #3 on:** January 17, 2005, 01:48:11 PM »

Priority Mail, which I use almost daily would cost anywhere from $29 to $89 for shipping 50 pounds, depending on the zone.

talon · « **Reply #4 on:** January 17, 2005, 07:28:24 PM »

Flash, go to www.usps.com/shipping/flatrate.htm?from=priority&page=flatrate and perhaps save a few bucks.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #5 on:** January 18, 2005, 12:05:09 AM »

you will want to melt it down and make it into ingots. I looks pretty clean but youd be supprised how much junk is in it that needs to be cleaned out.

Kingfish · « **Reply #6 on:** January 19, 2005, 07:27:58 AM »

Thanks for the replies and info. I guess I need to melt down a little and make a few ingots to see what floats up to the top. I just didn't want to skim off any of the tin or antimony. Do I still need to flux the lino? I saw a add from Midway that said their ingots of lino was 4% tin and around 6-8% antimony. Is this about what lino is supposed to have in it? Thanks

Bill

pistolfan · « **Reply #7 on:** January 20, 2005, 11:41:35 AM »

Kingfish- If I where you I'd melt this lino down in as big of a quantity as you can and make ingots out of this melt. It may be lino but the composition can vary a little from piece to peice. If you just throw a hand full into your melting pot when your making bullets your bullets will vary in weight by quit a bit sometimes up too 10grs +/-. I use to do it that way and thats what happen. I have lino that came from a print shop so it was all the same, so I thought but the bullet weights did vary. I melted large batches of it in a cut off propane tank, must have been at least 50 or more pounds each, I then pour this in ingots I labled each lot so when I made bullets I used the same lot of lead. I also use sawdust for a flux works great. Hope I was of some help, enjoy. Peter aka pistolfan

Kingfish · « **Reply #8 on:** January 20, 2005, 12:21:50 PM »

That's a good tip pistolfan. I do that with ww's and ranger scrap but had not thought of it for the lino. On some early posts the question of shipping costs came up and I looked at the box my 50lbs of lino came in and the US Postal service charged $14.74 to ship around 300 miles (had Heavy stamped on the box). The box was pretty beat up and had a few small pieces leaking out of it. I had to pick it up at the post office as the postal lady said she couldn't pick it up.

Bill

talon · « **Reply #9 on:** January 20, 2005, 02:35:39 PM »

Kingfish, again, the Flat Rate Box is marked as such and for $7.70 you can ship up to 70# of anything that fits across the breath of the US. That is delivery to your door. If it's under 70#, and the postal person has problems delivering it that's an internal Post Office problem. Also, the instructions on that reference I provided above does mention that the shipper has to insure proper packing. The post office doesn't actively inform you of the least expensive way to ship things and I've seen people pay $12.00 to ship a set of cartridge reloading dies or 2 or 3 bullet molds across country in a much smaller box. One of the reasons it's hard to sell lead is because very few are aware of the Flat Rate Box benefit. You do know you can order these empty Flat Rate boxes on line for free don't you? You may have to because most post offices don't have them for their customers. I used to think it strange to have to force government workers to do their jobs, but I'm older and wiser now.

JPH45 · « **Reply #10 on:** February 01, 2005, 01:13:59 PM »

Kingfish, I seriously doubt that you are heating your metal to a point that you would drive tin out of the melt. Tin and lead make a true solution, if they didn't when the melt cooled we sould have two different batches of metal. Tin oxidizes out of the melt as a result of contact with oxygen, but once the surface is coated with this tin oxide, no further tin oxidizes out unless the surface is disturbed, exposing new metal to the atmosphere. 10 pounds of Linotype contains about 6.4 ounces of tin, it would take a lot of surface exposure to oxidize that much tin.

For a deeper, more insightful conversation about this, contact Bill Ferguson at www.theantimonyman.com Bill is a metalurgist with who runs a business selling folks like us antimony and tin. He has a vast knowledge about lead and lead alloys.

I use the Lee Production Pot, bottom pour. I make ingots using the little cornbread irons. These are about 3 1/2" long and about 3/4" across. They drop into my pot and melt very quickly and allow me to make quick additons to my pot as I am casting. By keeping the pot topped up, I almost never have to flux the pot itself. Some people use a layer of kitty litter on the melt to create a boundry between the melt and the atmosphere, but I've found that once that first layer of tin oxide forms, dropping these ingots into the melt exposes so little new metal to the atmosphere that any tin loss is completely negligable.

I know this goes against the conventional wisdom of the past, but I assure you, give it a try, you will be surprised. If you use a dipper things become problematic as each dip exposes new metal to the atmosphere. Good luck, enjoy the Linotype.

Kingfish · « **Reply #11 on:** February 02, 2005, 10:08:45 AM »

Thanks for your input, JPH45. I have been reading some other posts here about using the bottom pour, like I have, or the dipper method. Some say that certain mould will not fill out right with the bottom pour and have to use the dipper and some say just the opposite. I haven't even tried my Lyman dipper yet as I usually get by with the bottom pour. I have tried holding the mould up against the spout but usually let the melt free fall a little. Like most, I'm busy trying to keep my mould and melt at the right temp while casting at the right speed.

I've only melted 6-7lbs of lino so far to see what the melt looks like and to make ingots. I was surprised at how much stuff floated up to the top of my cast iron pot over the butane burner. Seems like I read something similar to what you are saying in the Lyman 47th about the tin and lead not seperating. The weather has been a little up and down for very much outdoor melting but hope to catch a better day soon.

Bill

Smoky Mountain Red · « **Reply #12 on:** February 05, 2005, 07:33:41 AM »

The linotype casting can cause so much variation in weights and diameters that I always cast into small ingots first. Then weight them and mark them with the weights. After I accumulate plenty of lead I will start with an empty pot and pre-weight all the ingots to get the ratio I'm looking for.

The perfect blend is hard to come up with when you are working with alloys to start with. I always recommend starting from an empty pot and working up. That way the whole run is a consistent batch. At least you can work around the consistency problem that way.

When I take down linotype to ingots, I try to keep stirring it every few minutes to avoid any migration that may take place in the pot. Also, try to take away the least amount of material you can when fluxing. Linotype is hard to come by now a days.

Good luck!

Red
:agree:

w30wcf · « **Reply #13 on:** February 07, 2005, 11:53:35 AM »

Kingfish,

The single letters are monotype which contain a higher % of antimony (19%-24%) and tin (9%-12%). There are approximately 4 different monotype alloys that is the reason for the different %'s.

The blocks are probably monotype as well.

Linotype is a single line of type. Thus the name.

To make linotype from monotype I mix it 50/50 with wheelweights.

If it were me, I would melt the letters, blocks, and strips separately.

To help identify what you have, melt a sample of each alloy in a dipper and cast it into a bullet mold. Compare the weight to that of a lead bullet from the same mold.

I will post the differences in bullet weights from various alloys this evening.

w30wcf

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w30wcf · « **Reply #14 on:** February 07, 2005, 03:54:50 PM »

Cast bullet alloy weight in % as compared to lead.

lead   1.000
w.w.   0.987 (3% antimony / .25% tin)
50/50   0.962 (5% animony / 5% tin)
linotype   0.936 (12% antimony / 4% tin)
monotype   0.890 (19% antimony / 9% tin)
monotype   0.858 (24% antimony / 12% tin)

To help identify common alloys, one can make some bullets from pure lead and compare the weight of the lead bullet to the bullet weight from the unknown alloy. A brinell hardness test should also be done to verify that the mix is not a tin / lead alloy with no antimony.

For example, a pure lead bullet from your mold weighs 250 grains, a bullet made from linotype would weigh 235 grs. (250 x .936).

w30wcf