Author Topic: Deadwood  (Read 3496 times)

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Offline dodgecity

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Deadwood
« on: March 22, 2004, 05:56:10 PM »
Did anyone get to see the premier of the new HBO series "Deadwood" this past Sunday? Looks promising, with good sets and photography. Keith Carradine as Wild Bill, and yup, he's armed with his navys. The first episode is repeated several times this week before the next episode airs.

Offline Capt Hamp Cox

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« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2004, 10:51:00 AM »
Haven't seen it yet.  I'm not what I'd consider a prude, but the trailers I did see leading up to the premier seemed to have an awful lot of gratuitous foul-mouth in them.  Was the whole episode that way?  If so, did it contribute to or detract from the show?
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Offline Shorty

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« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2004, 02:49:02 PM »
I only read a review, and don't remember who it was, but he said that the profanity and vulgarity of each and every character was enough to nix the whole series.  Why would hollywood think that people had gutter-mouths in those days?  We know, from reading writings from those days, that even "bad guys" usually minded their manners (except when they were drunk)  :wink:

Offline dodgecity

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Deadwood
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2004, 05:01:08 AM »
Yes, there was a lot of profanity. I mostly enjoyed the dress, sets, firearms, etc., which seemed to me to present a pretty accurate portrayal of the era. I personally don't think the level of profanity was necessary, or, even helpful to that portrayal, in fact, I would have probably enjoyed it more without, or at least, with much less profanity. It was not an episode that I would allow my 12 year old grandson to watch. I suppose that a lot of it has to do with the director's desire to depict the rawest of frontier society, beyond any control of law or societal morals or norms. Many of the characters, after all, were fugitives from those very things.

Offline Capt Hamp Cox

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« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2004, 03:07:28 PM »
Dodgecity,

Appreciate your assessment.

Hamp
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Offline Capt Hamp Cox

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« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2004, 05:22:47 AM »
Watched it last night, and my first reaction is that it is pretty "dark" and depressing.  Guessin' that's the effect the director is after.  Will more than likely watch the next couple of episodes and see what happens.  Still don't see the necessity for the continuous bad language throughout.

Hamp
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Offline Chargar

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Profanity in Deadwood
« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2004, 05:31:51 PM »
My wife (who is a professional historian) and myself have discussed the profanity in Deadwood at length. There was lots of profanity in the old west, but Deadwood's is of the 20th century variety. The use of the "F" word as an adjective, gerund and adverb is not correct to the period. The "F" word was used to describe the sex act and was pretty well left at that. Most old west profanity had to do with "taking the Lord's name in vain", hell, SOB, human waste, and questioning the marital satus of one's parents. The profanity in Deadwood is not only "over the top" and offensive, but not historicaly correct for the period.

HBO is well known for pushing the envelop and that are trying to do that again. 19th century "cussing" just would not be "edgie" enough for them.

Offline Capt Hamp Cox

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« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2004, 05:46:03 AM »
Well said, Chargar.
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Offline Col. Nathan C. Riddles

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Deadwood
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2004, 09:28:41 AM »
David Milch - Creator, Executive Producer and Head Writer

In 1982, David Milch, a lecturer in English literature at Yale University and neophyte screenwriter, wrote a script for HILL STREET BLUES. The episode, "Trial By Fury," premiered HILL STREET'S third season and won the Emmy, the Writers Guild Award, and the Humanitas Prize for that season.

Milch's academic years were distinguished by achievements and honors, in some ways foreshadowing his future success in television. He graduated Phi Beta Kappa and Summa Cum Laude from Yale, where he won the Tinker Prize for highest achievement in English. He then earned an MFA, with distinction, from the Writer's Workshop at Iowa University. During his nine-year teaching career at Yale, he assisted Robert Penn Warren and Cleanth Brooks in the preperation of several college textbooks on literature. In addition, Milch's poetry and fiction have been published in various journals, including The Atlantic Monthly and Southern Review.

The success of his first script, however, marked the end of his academic career and the beginning of a career in dramatic television. He spent five seasons with HILL STREET BLUES, first as Executive Story Editor and subsequently as Executive Producer. During that time, Milch earned two more Writers Guild Awards, a second Humanitas prize, and another Emmy.

Milch's career gained momentum throughout the 1980's with the addition of two other series to his credits. In 1987, he created and Executive Produced the HILL STREET BLUES spin-off BEVERLY HILLS BUNTZ, which featured NYPD BLUE co-star Dennis Franz, and, in 1989, Milch served as Executive Producer of the ABC series CAPITAL NEWS, starring Lloyd Bridges.

In 1992, Milch co-created the history-making police drama NYPD BLUE. The highly-rated series set a record by garnering 26 Emmy Nominations its premier season, winning the award for Best Drama Series in 1994-1995. Milch took home Emmys for Best Writing in a Drama for the 1996-1997 and 1997-1998 seasons. The first season of NYPD BLUE also earned Milch a Humanitas Prize and an Edgar Award for his screenwriting.

While still at the helm of NYPD BLUE, Milch created another police drama, BROOKLYN SOUTH, co-authored, along with NYPD Blue producer Bill Clark, TRUE BLUE: The Real Stories Behind NYPD Blue, and served as creative consultant for Steven Bochco's MURDER ONE and TOTAL SECURITY.

Below you will find his statement about the program. He read some books about Deadwood, many of which have been debunked by modern historian as being on the same level as Stuart lake's "Frontier Marshal" and Glen Boyer's books about Wyatt Earp. I do not get HBO and feel that I am not missing anything.


Series creator David Milch talks about gold, Custer, betrayal — and the remarkable accidents of history that created the wildest town in the West.

Executive producer David Milch warns that Deadwood is not a docu-drama about the famed outlaw town. "I want to make it clear," he says, "that I've had my a$$ bored off by many things that are historically accurate."

That said, Milch spent months immersing himself in the true stories of the people of 19th century Deadwood, absorbing not just the events, but also the subtle motivations behind them. "I like to read the primary materials; I love reading the Black Hills Pioneer, you know," he says. "I could read that all day. I'm interested in the personalities who were kind of the first prime movers in the community."

What has emerged is a picture of a place finding its own "order" without the benefit of laws. "Deadwood was a place created by a series of accidents. A kind of original sin — the appropriation of what belonged to one people by another people — was enacted with no pretense at all," he says. "You know, the people who landed in Manhattan, they paid 24 bucks. Well, maybe they got a bargain, but they still recognized the obligation to pay. In the Black Hills, the land had just been given to the Indians, to get 'em to move from another piece of land."

The "appropriation" of the Black Hills began a chain of events the lead to Deadwood's strange status as a town that wasn't subject to American laws. "The Black Hills had been given to the Ogallala Sioux and some other groups. But Custer needed one more war," Milch says. "Custer was one of a group of young Turks, young generals in the Civil War. He was a psychopath, which always gives you a leg up, you know — it makes you more active and more imaginative in your strategies."

With an eye toward a political career and even a presidential run, Custer organized support for a 1,000-man expedition into the Black Hills. "A lot of people were broke. There was a panic in 1873, and migrations of people." Milch says. "There were all kinds of social disruptions going on, and into this foment, you stir in Custer's personal ambitions.

"Now for years and years there had been rumors that there was gold in the Black Hills. But what would become the Dakota Territory was owned by the Sioux 'for as long as the river shall run' according to the treaty signed six years before. So Custer says, let me ascertain the scientific content about the mineral deposits in the hills. And the guys in the Senate who wanted to run Custer for president authorized the expedition. Custer gets 25 photographers, reporters from the New York Times. It's a media event."

“He (Custer) was a psychopath, which always gives you a leg up, you know — it makes you more active and more imaginative in your strategies.”

"They don't find too much gold. But they find a little, and Custer makes some hysterical pronouncements in Harper's, I think it was: 'Gold by the handful! Gold by the pocketful. Gold everywhere you turn'."

The coverage led to expeditions into the Dakota Territory, and eventually to the big gold discovery around what would become Deadwood. But Custer's rivals urged President Grant — no fan of Custer, himself — to honor the treaty and oust the prospectors. Grant had a reputation of being sympathetic to the American Indian, and had even mentioned in his inauguration address that he hoped to see Native Americans one day become citizens.

"He agrees that they won't betray the treaty," Milch says. "Which makes one in a row. He sends in some cavalry in 1875, and they make all the whites leave. Calamity Jane had been in there. But in 1876, people are still broke, and the cavalry who'd been left out there, they start to go AWOL. They're deserting left and right. The prospectors come back in and find more gold. Now, you know, Grant was no idiot; he couldn't get any soldiers to stay in the army. So he said let 'em in, and pull your troops.

"Custer's got what he wants. Now he gets his troops organized, he's going to go in and kick the s**t out of the Indians. And we all know how that one turned out. Crazy Horse and Sitting Bull kicked the living crap out of Custer at Little Big Horn, which is a stone's throw from Deadwood. That was in late June. By then, the hills were swarming with prospectors. And they were doing very well."

With the invasion of adventurers, outlaws and entrepreneurs into a vacuum of order, Deadwood had become a world unto itself. "This is the equivalent of the first amphibians coming out of the primordial ooze," Milch says. "In March, there was nothing. All the whites were lurking in the hills. In June, there were 10,000 people there. That's a lot of people to move to Buffalo, let alone Indian Territory. It was not part of America. They were an outlaw community, and they knew it."

That meant no government. No organized religion. Not even basic law enforcement. When a prominent figure in town was murdered, for example, "they didn't want Congress to take umbrage — what are you, secessionists, are you setting up your own government? So they just let the guy go," Milch says. "Not only was there an absence of law, there was a premium on the continued absence of law. Economic forces organized the settlement."**

I've heard Custer referred to as many things, but never before a "psychopath". The idea that Custer was seeking political office has been declared a myth. Yes he was brash & yes he was a glory hound with an ego as big as Mt. Rushmore, and had a penchant for going off on his own & disobeying orders. He was known for that throughout his West Point days and his entire military career.

Milch has made it quite clear that he is bored by historically accurate material.

** The Dakota Territory, (although not yet states) was still very much a part of the United States, as are Puerto Rico, Guam, American Virgin Islands and American Samoa today.  Deadwood had a city Marshal and county sheriff as well as U.S. Marshals throughout the territory. Albeit minimal, there was law in Deadwood & the Black Hills.

Offline paladyn

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Deadwood
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2004, 04:36:58 AM »
I've read the assumption all the swearing is accurate is incorrect also.
In fact, I read that it wasn't until the Vietnam era that public swearing starting becoming common.
Even the worst outlaws in the old west at the very least did not swear in mixed company, and usually acted very polite even while committing some crimes such as robberies.

Most of them also dressed up in the suits/western ties you see in some films. I remember most people still dressed up in shirts and ties in the late 60s when I was a kid to go to ballgames, etc.
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Offline HWooldridge

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Deadwood
« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2004, 12:10:50 PM »
The profanity is so excessive that it's distracting.  I have worked on construction crews that didn't cuss that much.  My grown sons and I watched it and they were uncomfortable - these are kids in high school and college.  We watched a couple of episodes and turned it off, which is a shame since I really enjoyed the rest of it.

Offline williamlayton

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« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2004, 01:49:44 PM »
Nathan-
really enjoy your post.
blessings
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline Capt Hamp Cox

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« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2004, 02:53:29 PM »
"There is a name for work that indulges in mind-numbing and predictable repetition, whether the words are clean or dirty. We call it "bad writing"."

That blurb is from an article in today's Austin (TX) American Statesman, http://www.statesman.com/opinion/content/auto/epaper/editions/thursday/editorial_04f8ff3bd09a80e700cd.html , an article that pretty much reflects how I am begining to feel about the current crop of TV series and big screen movies that go totally overboard with foul language. After 29 years in our military, I certainly don't have virgin ears, but the continued use of foul language that lends absolutely nothing to the story line is becoming extremely irritating and distracting.  As was mentioned in a previous post, it is sad that an otherwise worthwhile and enjoyable production can be so adversely affected by the unnecessary use of offensive language.
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Offline williamlayton

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Deadwood
« Reply #13 on: April 29, 2004, 10:51:29 PM »
I certainly agree with you on this. Lets keep it a secret, wouldn't want folks to know you was associatin with low life's like me.
I remember, an am partial to the older movies from the 40's, 50's an 60's cause they had a story and I didn't haff to sift thru bad language, which is not useful, sex, which adds nothing, and Graffic violence, which I avoid like a plague.
High Noon, Tha Searchers, aw hech the list goes on forever. The mysteries were wounderful, Bogart an such. Didn't take an epic to tell the story either.
Blessings
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Offline MOGorilla

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Deadwood
« Reply #14 on: April 30, 2004, 02:11:18 AM »
I enjoy Deadwood, but the constant swearing is little distracting to say the least.   One of the things I remember hearing about Calamity Jane was she was known for her foul mouth and her drinking.  On Deadwood, she has no more foul mouth than anyone else including several of the soiled doves.  If that were truly the case I doubt history would have recorded Jane's ability with colorful language.  I enjoy the show, I especially liked Carradine as Hickock, I will miss his portrayal.   Does anyone else think the guy playing Bullock is Michael Biehn's long lost brother?  He could definitely be a younger Johnny Ringo from Tombstone.

Offline Mikey

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« Reply #15 on: May 03, 2004, 07:57:20 AM »
Well Ladies and Gents, I made the mistake of tuning into this show last night (Sunday) for less than 5 minutes, and really couldn't believe my ears.  The amount and degree of profanity within just the first few minutes was rediculous.  I have never heard such garbage on television and won't hear it again - at least not on that show.

What on earth happened to our standards of decency?  Have they all been aborted by the hollywood action writer?  Does it or would it ever matter to any of those script writers that language so foul was as far out of character for such a series as would be using an M-16 in a John Wayne western?  The real problem I have with all that garbage language is that some idjit is going to think that really was the way of life in the old west.

Sad to say.  Mikey.

Offline 44 Man

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Deadwood
« Reply #16 on: May 06, 2004, 08:20:28 AM »
While on the same subject, went to see "Lady Killers" will Tom Hanks last week.  I had looked forward to this movie but we walked out after 15 minutes (we stayed 10 minutes too long) because of the constant profanity.  The profanity adds nothing to the story and you wonder why it is included.  I guess I have to remember that these (Hollywood) are the same people who are trying to make us think that the gay lifestyle is the mainstream and that everyone sleeps with their neighbor's wife, and that God is just a word you use with your profanity.  Sorry, but 85% of America is not like that and I think it is time we told them (with our pocketbooks; the only thing they understand) that we won't put up with it anymore.  44 Man
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Offline Win 73

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« Reply #17 on: February 11, 2005, 05:57:37 PM »
Yes, Calamity Jane was known for her foul mouth, but because it was unusual especially for a woman.  And I suspect the profanity she used would be pretty tame by todays standards.  And as stated by others, even the men back then didn't use profanity like they do today.  And around women, men were especially careful.  Women were highly valued because they were scarce in the West.  A good way to get hung or tarred and feathered or shot was to molest a woman, especially a "good" woman.

I have read my cousin Wes's (John Wesley Hardin) autobiography that he wrote while in prison and there is not one word of profanity in it, not even one "damn".
"When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace."  Luke 11:21

Offline prairiedog555

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Re: Deadwood
« Reply #18 on: October 02, 2006, 12:14:47 PM »
At first I was also not happy with all the profanity, but the character development is excellent.  I think it was ment to show the base part of life, and it succeeds. 
Of all the villians in any genre, I think I enjoy Al Swerengen the best.  Now that is a character. He is a baaad man.
In one of the first episodes he tells his henchman in a nonchalant manner " and don't forget to kill Tim"