Author Topic: M96 vs M38 Swede action (Read 2159 times)

VFR · « **on:** January 14, 2005, 06:15:18 AM »

Could someone on this forum explain to me the difference between these two actions. I recently acquired a Husky built on a 38. All of my 46's I believe are built on 96's. Thanks, Robert

1911crazy · « **Reply #1 on:** January 14, 2005, 07:43:52 AM »

The M96's were all either Carl Gustaf's or Oberndorf's and the M38's are really M96's cut down to M38's which are M96/38's. The Husqvarna is the only new manufactured truely M38. The long rear site on the others is a dead giveaway it was an M96 at one time. Other than that the M96 is a 29" barrel and the M38 is a 23" barrel(carbine) which it does give up some accuracy with the shorter barrel. The Carl Gustaf and Husqvarna are swedish companies while Oberndorf is a german company. But Carl Gustaf actually sent swedish steel to Oberndorf to manufacture their swedish rifles so they are all made from swedish steel and all have the same quality. The Carl Gustaf's and Oberndorf's date back to the late 1800's thus Model 1896 while Husqvarna started making them in the 40's. The Model 38 was actually made in 1938 thast when the cutdowns started. The oldest swedish mauser is actually the M94 thats the model made in 1894 as we collect them. There are older rolling block swede's too. BigBill

VFR · « **Reply #2 on:** January 14, 2005, 07:54:44 AM »

Thanks BigBill
The rifle on the M38 action is a Husqvarna M649 in 9.3x62, made in 1944. The left side of the receiver does not have the thumb slot for using the stripper clips. Is this true of military configured M38's? My 46's using the 96 action all have the thumb cut. Thanks again.

1911crazy · « **Reply #3 on:** January 14, 2005, 07:55:51 AM »

You have a husqvarna sporting rifle. BigBill

VFR · « **Reply #4 on:** January 14, 2005, 10:02:53 AM »

Were these sporting rifles built on military actions or was there a commercial version of the m38 action? Does the M38 have the thumb cut like the M96? Thanks.

1911crazy · « **Reply #5 on:** January 14, 2005, 01:05:16 PM »

These were built on small ring recievers which measure 1.300" the large rings are 1.400". There were large ring swedes too "98's". I believe they were sporter small ring recievers with no military connection. Pics can be found at Sarco of these rifles and they have some for sale there so others can see what they look like. BigBill

VFR96 · « **Reply #6 on:** January 14, 2005, 01:31:00 PM »

Thanks. I have a couple of 46's and the 649, all purchased from Sarco.

Harry Snippe · « **Reply #7 on:** January 18, 2005, 06:53:14 PM »

I had a model 96 made in 1915 Carl Gustaf and a 1942 model 38 with the turned down bolt . The model 38 Husqvarna is a lot stronger action . Loads save in the 38 would lock up in the 96.

VFR · « **Reply #8 on:** January 19, 2005, 06:26:05 AM »

Thanks for the good news Harry. How would you rate the M38 Husky vs a '98 Mauser? I was keeping my 9.3x62 loads down to 60gr of H4350 with the 270gr Speer for punching paper. Amazingly accurate! This open sight shooting is so much fun, I might have Lasix surgery done and do away with the glasses.

MGMorden · « **Reply #9 on:** January 19, 2005, 01:04:02 PM »

Quote from: VFR

How would you rate the M38 Husky vs a '98 Mauser?

As far as action strength? The 98 Mauser is a much stronger action. Loads listed as safe in a 98 (large ring Mauser) will not be safe in your gun (a small ring Mauser). The Swede is still a fine rifle, it just won't handle as high of pressures as the more modern 98 action.

VFR · « **Reply #10 on:** January 20, 2005, 02:21:42 AM »

The Mausers have that third locking lug at the rear of the bolt. I don't think it makes solid contact with the receiver but acts as a backup if things go wrong and the front lugs shear. It's my understanding that the biggest improvement the 98 offered was gas handling in case of a pierced primer or ruptured case. Has anyone ever seen a catastrophic failure of a 98 where the third lug came into play? I've never talked to anyone who has actually seen this, only heard about it third or forth hand.

VFR · « **Reply #11 on:** January 20, 2005, 02:26:05 AM »

PS--do M38 Husky actions have the thumb slot for using stripper clips?

MGMorden · « **Reply #12 on:** January 20, 2005, 01:31:58 PM »

Quote from: VFR

PS--do M38 Husky actions have the thumb slot for using stripper clips?

They do, but I think you're missing something. The M38 Husqvarna IS a Mauser. It's just a small ring Mauser. Husqvarna simply refers to the location it was made in.

They do have the thumb slot; the small ring mauser action (the 93 Spanish, 94 Swedish, 96 Swedish, 38 Swedish, and probably another couple that I missed) differs from the large ring mauser action (98 German and most other Mauser actions) in the following ways:

1. As you mentioned, the large ring actions have a 3rd rear lug as a safety feature. Small ring Mausers such as the Swedish ones do not have this 3rd lug.
2. As you also mentioned, the bolt shroud was made to better handle escaping gas in the event of a pierced primer.
3. The large ring actions are a cock-on-opening design, while the small rings are cock-on-closing. Cock-on-opening is generally accepted to be the better design.
4. The large ring action is stronger. It can handle pressures much higher than the small ring action. The small ring actions could never safely handle .30-06 class cartridges whilst the large ring actions can do this without any problems.

1911crazy · « **Reply #13 on:** January 20, 2005, 03:52:33 PM »

If your looking to compare which small ring action is stronger out of the '38, '93, '94, '95. '96 and the 96/38 its the chilean '95 it has the third safety lug and they can handle the 308 round too. The husqvarna '38, the oberndorf 96, the Carl Gustaf M96 and the M96/38's all are of equal strenghts and if a load is locking up in one gun than i would have to check out the headspace because there is something wrong with the gun its not the Husqvarna is the better gun its just a new M38 rather than taking the older M96 and cutting it down to a M96/38. So the M'95 is king of the small rings. Some mauser guys do swear the oberndorf mausers are the only real mausers too. While i like them all the Loewe, Berlin & the DWM Mausers are a pretty close second to the Oderndorf's because i can't see any difference in the quality. Even the swedish mausers have the same feel to me, meaning the bolts are just as smooth. So that leaves the arguement to the difference in the quality of the steels which is an easy one the swedish steels have been rated the best for many years. As far as the wood goes I have tiger striped quality stocks in all of the manufacturers brands of mausers. Thats the only thing that keeps me picking them up is the quality of the wood grain besides then having all matching numbers. Its hard to pass them up when their perfect and still affordable too.

BigBill

All the small ring swedish military mauser recievers have the thumb slot for using stripper clips i just looked at all of mine. The '98 is a far stronger action with the 1.400 diameter over the small ring 1.300 diameter reciever. Plus the bolt is larger too. I believe the mexican mauser is a small ring mauser that takes thje 98 sized bolt. The breech pressure is the same between the 9.3x62 and the 308win but i would still go with the m95 reciever with having the third safety lug.

VFR · « **Reply #14 on:** January 21, 2005, 01:54:25 AM »

Great stuff guys. I am new to Swedish Mausers so I appreciate all the info. Now, here is the dilemma--the reason I asked about the thumb cut is that my 649 built on a M38 action does not have the thumb cut. Is it possible that there was a commercial version of this action that did not have the cut? Thanks again, Bob

1911crazy · « **Reply #15 on:** January 21, 2005, 02:12:12 AM »

Quote from: VFR

Great stuff guys. I am new to Swedish Mausers so I appreciate all the info. Now, here is the dilemma--the reason I asked about the thumb cut is that my 649 built on a M38 action does not have the thumb cut. Is it possible that there was a commercial version of this action that did not have the cut? Thanks again, Bob

Besides the thumb slot cut it has to have the cutout on top for the stripper clip too it guides it too. Yes you have a sporter reciever so it won't have the military features. I've seen some awesome looking eye opening Husqvarna sporting rifles too but the downfall is their not cheap. BigBill

VFR · « **Reply #16 on:** January 21, 2005, 04:15:32 AM »

BigBill,
My rifle has the stripper clip guides, just no thumb slot. I have never seen this arrangement on a military Mauser type action Thanks again. Bob

simonkenton · « **Reply #17 on:** February 03, 2005, 10:12:57 AM »

Husqvarna made M96s. I have one.

savageT · « **Reply #18 on:** February 07, 2005, 10:38:59 AM »

VWR,
I think if your stock doesn't have the thumb cutout for the stripperclip, but the receiver has the mill-cut it could be you have a replacement stock and original M38 receiver/barrel. If you have dis-assembled the gun, was there serial numbers stamped in the wooden stock pieces? Check under the buttplate.

Jim

VFR · « **Reply #19 on:** February 09, 2005, 08:53:20 AM »

SavageT,
Neither the stock nor the action has the thumb slot. I will check the #'s this evening. Thanks again.

vick · « **Reply #20 on:** February 11, 2005, 03:42:28 AM »

VFR, the thumb cutout was one of the refinements used on the 1896 action. The 1896 action is the same as the 1938 action. Most 1938 rifle were simply 1896's rebarreled, new sights, and new stock. The thumb cut out was NOT present on the original 1894 action. The little 1894 carbines were popular, but the Swede's thought that they kicked too much :eek: . Anyway, if you have a military action without the thumb cuts it should be a 1894 action. However, this does not mean that the commercial rifles didn't have the stripper clip guide. One reason you see different features on what appear to be mixed recievers is that these rifles were rebarreled MANY times. The swedes were fanatics about marksmanship, and they built their rifles accordingly. I had a 1896 that, according to the butt disk, had been rebarreled 3 times. The barrel that was on the rifle was showing at the outside of spec, read ready to be rebarrled again by Swede spec. This rifle still easily held 1.5"-2" grups at 100yrds.

VFR · « **Reply #21 on:** February 11, 2005, 06:49:29 AM »

Good stuff Vick,
According to the ssn, the rifle was produced in 1944 as a sporting rifle by Husqvarna, one of their 600 series, specifically a 649. The front ring has the Husqvarna crest. All metal numbers match. I did not check the stock for numbers while having the action out. Would Husqvarna have used a '94 action for one of their sporting rifles that superceded the m 46 series built on '96 actions? Thanks again. Bob

VFR96 · « **Reply #22 on:** February 12, 2005, 07:20:39 AM »

PS Vick,
How close are you to Clayton Ga? I live in Destin Fl, but all my Mom's family is up in Clayton. Bob

vick · « **Reply #23 on:** February 12, 2005, 08:37:38 AM »

If the serial #'s show a 1944 manufacture date, then it should be a 1896 action. Once a design improvement had been made (i.e. thumb cuts, gas vents, etc) they stuck with it. I'm not as familiar with the commercial rifles (not that I'm an expert on the military). Chances are that it is a commercial rifle made with a stripper clip guide.
BTW, I'm from the Athens, GA area. Lived here all my life. GOOOO DAWGS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

VFR96 · « **Reply #24 on:** February 12, 2005, 02:53:55 PM »

Thanks Vick. I did my undergrad work at UofG many years ago. Left there in '71. Would probably not recognize Athens now. Thanks, Bob