Pro-lifer charged for fetus display

[Num_1_Dad]

The outcome of this should be good.



MATTERS OF LIFE AND DEATH
Pro-lifer charged
for fetus display
Attorney sees contradiction in trial
for 'exposing a dead body'

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: March 12, 2005
1:00 a.m. Eastern



© 2005 WorldNetDaily.com

An activist who had a dead fetus in a jar at an anti-abortion rally is facing charges for keeping and exposing a dead body or body part.

Although the defense has not yet raised the issue in the trial, the charge underscores the contradictions in U.S. law over the legal standing of a fetus, says Brian Chavez-Ochoa, attorney for Jeff White, a lay minister from Lake Arrowhead, Calif.


White was arrested last spring while demonstrating outside a Planned Parenthood clinic in the nation's capital, the Washington Post reported.

When police officers asked White what he had in his pocket, he pulled out a jar with a 15- to 17-week-old female fetus, set in clear liquid.

The officers made phone calls to commanders and prosecutors to determine what law White might have broken, the Post said. They finally arrested him and charged him with keeping and exposing a dead body or body part.

White was in Washington for counter-demonstrations to an abortion rights rally and told the police the fetus was a "teaching tool." He now is on trial in D.C. Superior Court.

Chavez-Ochoa pointed out in an interview with the Post that abortion rights activists argue a fetus is merely a cluster of cells, not a human being.

"If that argument is correct," he said, "then how can somebody be charged by the District of Columbia with displaying a human being" when it was a fetus?

"It's a contradictory argument," Chavez-Ochoa said. "If it's not just a clump of cells, is the attorney general willing to concede that a ... fetus is in fact a human being?"

The Post said, however, the defense so far has not advanced that argument, instead focusing for the previous two days on attacking the testimony of the arresting officers and suggesting the incident did not constitute "display" of a dead body.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=43263

[BamBams]

Well, I never thought I'd see the day where I hoped Jeff would be found guilty of anything!  Knowing him, there is no doubt in my mind that he'd be willing to do time to establish a fetus as a human being.

For those who do not know about Jeff, he was one of the three top leaders of Operation Rescue National.  He left the organization when there was a riff between him and Randall Terry a few years ago.  Randall also left and is now doing other things. The organization is now called "Operation Save America" and is led by Flip Benham.

If you want to hear another pro-life story.  I once did a few things with Rev. Johnny Hunter.  John is located in Buffalo, NY.  He was charged under the "Klu Klux Klan Act" for his pro-life work.  When he showed up, the prosecuter freaked out in court and asked for a dismissal.  You want to know why?  John is as black as the ace of spades and the DA did not know this.  We have laughed sooo many times about this.

[jh45gun]

While his actions may be goulish to some it will maybe bring some court rulings on the subject. Seems interesting to me he gets arrested for this yet MADD Folks have gruesome wrecks of cars that were in fatal crashes in parades but no one gets arrested about that. Yea I know no bodies but it still is as goulish. Jim

[Haywire Haywood]

Attorney sees contradiction in trial
for 'exposing a dead body'

An activist who had a dead fetus in a jar at an anti-abortion rally is facing charges for keeping and exposing a dead body or body part.

Isn't it funny how the pro-lifers can edit or change the truth to make it say what they want it to.

Ian

[powderman]

To be charged with displaying a dead body is an admission that an unborn child is human life. I believe that ALL women going to these butchers to have their child killed should be required to see the babies of former abortions. They should be made to fully see and understand exactly what it is they are killing. They would be able to see that what they intend to kill is certainly not just a blob. POWDERMAN.  :?  :?  :?  :?  :?  :?

[Haywire Haywood]

Or Body Part.... you forgot that again.. just a friendly escort back to reality..

Ian

[jh45gun]

Ian what if your mother had considered you a body part or a blob? I guess we would not have your wisdom on the subject?

[dukkillr]

i worked in a catholic hospital for 2 years doing anatomic pathology.  while we did not do elective abortions we still had the unfortunate reality of spontaneous and emergency abortions.  i can tell you as someone who's been there, you could show someone an early term aborted fetus and a pool of coagulated blood and no one would be able to tell the difference.  Infact frequently we used microscopes to determine if the fetal tissue had even been recovered.  

Now on the other side of the spectrum, I also had the unfortunate duty of dealing with late term miscarriages.  Generally speaking they were indistiguishable from living infants.  Sometimes the mothers would choose not to collect the remains.  We would have them incinerated, then the ashes would be blessed, and then burried.

My point is that the issue is a complex one.  I've seen every end of it.  To say that a late term fetus isn't as "human" as a delivered baby is hard to justify.  To say that a 4 week clump of material is the same as a human is also hard to justify.  In the end I decided that in a country with freedom of religion I had no business deciding for other people when a human life should, "begin".  I have my own opinion, but I don't feel it's right to impose that on others.

[Haywire Haywood]

Ian what if your mother had considered you a body part or a blob? I guess we would not have your wisdom on the subject?

I'd expect her life would have been much more pleasant... I was a real pain in the Keester.  Doesn't change the fact that the Pro-Lifers are twisting the facts to suit them.  They're not alone tho, anti-gunners pick, choose and twist their statistics to make guns owners sound like a danger to society too.  

Doesn't it feel good to know that Pro-Lifers and Gun Grabbers have something in common?  Combating personal freedoms at every opportunity regardless of the truth?

Again, as in another thread here, we're doomed to disagree so there's no point in hashing it out.  Will just promote bad feelings.  I think I'm gonna go back to the NEF forum, this one is just too right wing for me.

Ian

[powderman]

HAYWOOD. Can't understand the hard complex decisions here because it's so simple. Pro life means just that. Pro choice really means pro death. Those are the only choices, there is no in between. Let the baby live, or you kill it, simple enough? POWDERMAN.              :?  :?  :?  :?  :?  :?  :?

[Num_1_Dad]

15- to 17-week-old female fetus

If he is found guilty, then they should go back to the medical records and have every woman who aborted from 15 weeks on charged with murder, as there will be a definite line on when the baby is called a baby and not a clump of cells, etc.

[jh45gun]

Well Heywire  at least your honest.        Most of us would not admit we are a pain to some one.  :shock: About the prolife folks twisting facts I do not really agree with that but even say its so they do it not any more so than the pro abortion folks they are masters at it. Jim

[dukkillr]

Can't understand the hard complex decisions here because it's so simple. Pro life means just that. Pro choice really means pro death. Those are the only choices, there is no in between. Let the baby live, or you kill it, simple enough?

I wish it were that simple.  Unfortunately I consider abortion an unfortunate reality in today's society, regardless of my opinion on the subject.  But this is where I think we disagree.  I consider myself pro-choice because I don't believe I have the right to make a decision about when life begins for other people.  To me it's inextricable from religion, and here in the US we have a freedom of religion (or freedom FROM relgion).  I hope people choose not to have abortions, or to practice responsible behavior so it's never an issue.  I'm certainly not Pro-death.  But I do believe that people in that situation have the right to make that decision, not me.  I'm not so vain as to believe my morals/religion is the only one who should be considered.  Who am I to impose those beliefs on others?

[Dali Llama]

I consider myself pro-choice because I don't believe I have the right to make a decision about when life begins for other people.  

I do believe that people in that situation have the right to make that decision, not me.

I'm not so vain as to believe my morals/religion is the only one who should be considered.

Who am I to impose those beliefs on others?

dukkillr definitely should not impose those beliefs on others, comment Dali Llama.

[Leverdude]

I wish it were that simple. Unfortunately I consider abortion an unfortunate reality in today's society, regardless of my opinion on the subject. But this is where I think we disagree. I consider myself pro-choice because I don't believe I have the right to make a decision about when life begins for other people. To me it's inextricable from religion, and here in the US we have a freedom of religion (or freedom FROM relgion). I hope people choose not to have abortions, or to practice responsible behavior so it's never an issue. I'm certainly not Pro-death. But I do believe that people in that situation have the right to make that decision, not me. I'm not so vain as to believe my morals/religion is the only one who should be considered. Who am I to impose those beliefs on others?

This I agree with wholeheartedly.  

[dukkillr]

dukkillr definitely should not impose those beliefs on others, comment Dali Llama.

Since I have a hard time decipering third person sarcasm I'll take the bait.  No, I wouldn't impose those beliefs on others.  I believe in freedom of choice for every person, regardless of the topic.  I don't believe that my personal opinions should dictate other people's options.  That belief is magnified when it comes to questions involving relgion and morals.  

It's hard to take one liners with references to one's self in the third person seriously, but I try to treat you with respect despite the challenge.  I would expect you to try and do the same.

[Leverdude]

dukkillr definitely should not impose those beliefs on others, comment Dali Llama.

So are there other beliefs that are ok to impose on others? Ask Leverdude  :grin:

[powderman]

DUKKILLR. You are correct Sir. God gave us all free will. We can choose right, or wrong, moral, or immoral, let it live, or kill it, Heaven, or hell. These choices are ours to make for sure, but we must choose wisely my friend. Our choice, our destiny. I've made my choice.
As to the one liners and the third person crap, do what I do, ignore it. POWDERMAN.        

[Graybeard]

Tread softly all ye gental GBO members. Step not on the toes of others or do unto them that which GB would not tolerate.  :eek: GB say his memory be much like that of proverbial elephant. He not soon forget promises made and expect same to be kept.

[powderman]

GRAYBEARD. Powderman, he say, okey dokey. POWDERMAN.  :wink:  :wink:  :wink:  :wink:  :wink:  :wink:          :-D  :-D