Author Topic: Which digital video camera?? (Read 1594 times)

Graybeard · « **on:** March 10, 2005, 05:28:57 PM »

OK guys who owns a digital video camera? What ya got. Do you recommend it for others?

I'm really undecided on what media is best. I've read reviews and while there are some definite pluses to using the mini DVDs there are some real draw backs too. Only Sony is making them which means big buck$ but other than that I've heard some problems with manipulating the images from them because of proprietary software that's really poor. Overall are the DV tape cassettes really best?

Talk to me. I need enlightenment.

Don Fischer · « **Reply #1 on:** March 12, 2005, 08:40:38 AM »

Your not having much luck with a reply here. I'm not into video, but I do a lot if filn and digital still. So an opinion for the sake of discussion.

I was very leary of getting into digital still shooting. But once I did I found that 99% of the people can't tell the difference between digital and film. My digital photo's I can only blow up to 8 1/2 x 11 but have seen some blown much bigger. With still's, the digital image seem's to just lay on the paper, film look's like it's coming out of the paper. I am probally get rid of my 35mm film camera, digital is that good, intrested in a Nikon F5?

I'm not sure whitch video camera would be best but go try some. Most all camera stores have demo. camera's. Or call one of the big camera stores.

Adaorama in NYC 1/212-741-0052 Ask to talk to the video dept. I've done a bit of business with them and highly recommend them.

National Camera Exchange 1888-8731979 I bought my panoramic camera from them and thet were great

Sorry I can't be more help, good luck.

DakotaElkSlayer · « **Reply #2 on:** March 17, 2005, 02:13:03 PM »

Graybeard,

Lucky for you, I spent way too much time researching this before I bought mine! First off, what are you planning on taping? This is very important since different media do certain things better. You also have to consider how small you want it...portability.

If you want the best possible video, you will want to get a miniDV camcorder. Better resolution than DVD and it is digital, so it is really easy to create a professional looking video with your home computer. The tapes are really small, so you can get a camcorder that easily slips into your coat pocket. I ended up buying a Sony DCR-HC40 last December....$420 at BestBuy after discounts(retails $599) This is a great "point and shoot" camcorder. If you have an analog camcorder you can plug it into this one and it will digitize the signal for you so you can edit with a computer. Great optics too....Leica lens.

The only downfall of this camcorder and MiniDv's in general, is that MiniDV's LOVE light. They seem to really need quite a bit of light in order to get a nice, bright output....

Besides a baby coming, I secretly wanted a camcorder to video some of my bowhunts. The low light performance coupled with the price tag left me feeling uneasy. So I bought a hunting camcorder on Ebay... A Samsung SCL610 Hi8 camcorder for a whole $41.00. It is analog, and mono sound, but man, what a nice picture in low light! As an added bonous, if I drop it out of my treestand, I won't start crying uncontrollably

Here's THE website for expert review and opinions on camcorders...it is like Graybeard's for tech geeks! www.camcorderinfo.com

Jim

Graybeard · « **Reply #3 on:** March 17, 2005, 04:59:24 PM »

Thanks I'll check out that site.

To be honest I want a LOT from my camcorder. Maybe too much. I definitely want low light capability. I see many of them are rated from O to 2 lux which is pretty darn good low light rating IF they live up to it. I want a LOT of optical zoom, not less than 20X optical zoom and I want it to start at normal view NOT wide angle view. Some digital zoom is nice but optical is where it's at.

I want to shoot primarily nature stuff out in the woods. So light might be low, lots of shadows most of the time and often a moving subject. But I want to film bigfoot at night during the full moon. Yeah I'm serious. Bulet Maker swears he has them and can show me and Matt and proof it to us. Me and Dennis are gonna drop by on the way back from our prairie dog hunt in June and me and Matt will go back later this year after leaves drop again.

Yet I want to do some filming of folks just being folks from time to time. Like on the prairie dog hunt. I want to be able to manipulate the images and do still captures to send via e-mail or to put on the site here.

Like I said I'm asking a LOT and am hoping to find the best compromise. I really want digital not analog to make all this happen.

DakotaElkSlayer · « **Reply #4 on:** March 17, 2005, 07:02:45 PM »

Wow! I guess you are asking a lot!!! One thing though, don't let the lack of optical zoom bother you. My Sony has only a 10x optical, but I bought a 2x multiplier and now have a 20x zoom.

To do a lot of filming in really low light with good images, you will have to go Pro or Prosumer camcorders....like the Sony DCR-VX2100. We are talking about a $2200 camcorder... They aren't as handy as the little consumer versions, but you know scopes and you know the size of the lens dictates the amount of light. Need a bigger camera to hold a bigger lens.

If that sounds too steep for you, what I would suggest is buying two camcorders. Find yourself a good used analog Cannon L1 or L2....great stuff...professional quality. Then buy a nice, miniDV consumer camcorder that allows analog to digital transfer. This way, you will have great low light shooting...and a handy camcorder to shoot people with....and the ability to do all you want on the computer.

Good Luck,

Jim

Graybeard · « **Reply #5 on:** March 18, 2005, 04:04:20 AM »

The more I read the more convinced I am that this whole idea needs to be re thought. I think it's way over my head and that it's unlikely I'm going to be able to learn to do what I think I want to do. Gonna hafta rethink what I have to do. I read a bunch on that link last night and this morning and it's so far over my head I don't even know what questions to ask.

I'm pretty hard headed on the optical zoom. I consider this my single highest priority. I'm familiar with doublers from my 35mm camera use. I feel they have more draw backs than positives for my applications. While they double magnification they half the light transfer. I can't live with that.

I'm beginning to think that I'll just have to live with what I shoot as is just like I mostly always have with my images in 35mm. I was hoping to be able to manipulate them as I do my digital still images after capturing them from the digital video. From what I read that's a pretty involved and technical process and I'm not that technically inclined with computers. I'm also not sure I'm willing to pay what it will cost to get the equipment to do what I want.

So I'm kinda back to where I started. I need to decide whether to buy a mini DVD or miniDV format and just live with the output. I really don't want to put over $1000 in this at this time. Decisions decisions.

DakotaElkSlayer · « **Reply #6 on:** March 18, 2005, 05:33:57 AM »

Graybeard,
I don't know what you call "manipulation", but editing is a simple matter of drag and drop with the software I have used....and the outcome looks professional.

One more tip... Don't be suckered into the "digital stills" that a lot of brands like to brag about. I don't know a camcorder out there that will take as good as a digital picture as a dedicated cheapo digital camera.

Good Luck,

Jim

Graybeard · « **Reply #7 on:** March 18, 2005, 06:18:48 AM »

While it might be handy to take a still photo from time to time which the video camera it's not by any means a real high priority for me. I have an Olympus C-700 with 10X optical and 2.7X digital zoom for stills. I'm looking for video not stills capability.

I'd like to think it's no more difficult to down load the video to my computer and capture stills from the video or to edit it than it is to do editing of my DC stills using PhotoShop but what I've read on the various video sites sure makes it sound like it's over my head.

Billybob · « **Reply #8 on:** March 20, 2005, 02:26:07 PM »

Graybeard,
I have a Sony TRV-330 which is a digital 8 camera that is about 4 years old. It has 25x optical zoom and it has a night vision mode called Nightshot as well as what they call Super Nightshot.
With Super Nightshot turned on the camera is rated at zero lux which means it will film in zero light. It is just like looking thru night vison goggles with that greenish hue. I normally just use the standard Night shot mode though when out in the woods with some available moonlight.
Using the Super Nightshot mode will illuminate the area alot more but it also slows down the speed of the film capture somewhat.
This night vision mode is actually an infra red beam that is projected by the camera and invisible to the naked eye. It is supposedly good to about 25 feet but I've had it on in the woods at night and it seems to reach farther than that. You can also order an attachment that kicks that range up to 100 feet or more. With Nightshot I have filmed in the woods at night when it was too dark to see with my naked eyes.
If you are talking about filiming under full moonlight in enough light that you can see something with your own eyes then these low lux cameras should work for you. If you're talking about filming in pitch black dark where you can't see where you're walking in the woods then your range would be limited to the range of the infra red beam.
You can still get Sony digital 8 cameras at Circuit City for like $300 if price is an issue, or their mini dv cams also probably have this Nightshot mode but they will cost a little more. You can also find these Sony cams that are a few years old on Ebay for a couple hundred bucks.
The movie processing is a piece of cake. I have used many different movie editing software packages. Some of the software can be complicated to use and some of it is very easy. It really depends on how much and what type of editing you want to do to the video. Adding fades between scenes or adding menus, text, titles of course adds some editing time.
Alot of times when I just want to upload a small film clip I just use the windows movie maker thats a part of Windows XP. It's easy and I can make small clips to upload for my friends to see in nothing flat. Because it's digital you can advance a frame at a time and save any frame to a digital still shot. It's very easy to do. Of course depending on what movie camera you have the megapixel of the still shot would vary. I've captured a few still shots from my videos that look great.
What you might want to do is buy a digital video camera at Circuit City and try it out. If you aren't happy with the results just return it. I have never had any problems returning anything there. In fact I bought a video camera there and after using it the first time I realized I didn't like it. I returned it and ended up spending a few more bucks for a better camera.
Hope you get some shots of that Bigfoot.
Here's a link to some video I took around the campfire a few weeks ago. This is just using the available fire and lantern light and I think I just had the standard Nightshot mode turned on. I was trying to find some videos with the Super Nightshot but I think I've recorded over top of those. This video is about 10 meg so you probably won't want to view it if you are on a dialup connection.

http://photos.imageevent.com/gsimpson/campoutfeb05videos/clipnum9.WMV