Author Topic: Mueller scopes? (Read 4384 times)

Graybeard · « **Reply #30 on:** January 27, 2005, 04:58:51 AM »

Yup I would agree, those are numbers I think scope makers should provide. Not everyone wants to see them but lots of folks do and it should be absolutely no problem for them to be provided at least on the website if not in the package with scopes. I have no clue to be honest if Mueller does or doesn't. I've not looked lately and CRS keeps me from remembering. :oops:

DHB · « **Reply #31 on:** January 27, 2005, 05:59:24 AM »

I for one am interested in the reticle subtension for the new 3-10 Extreme with Duplex.
Thanks
Dave

timbertoes · « **Reply #32 on:** January 27, 2005, 09:45:48 AM »

Quote from: goose7856

sry timber if you felt disrespected, and yes there are probably millions of technacalities, but to me life is life......if your use it and it breaks (w/o you breaking it on purpose), then you get it repaired or you are given a new scope. To me thats plain and simple. When you find out if the company is good or not is when they either stand behind their product (Like leupold has the history of doing), or neglecting the item. Maybe that is too simplistic, but there is only so much the consumer needs/can look into. You will always find some ind of fauly with every company. Just outway the good and bad, and choose?!

no problem or hard feelings, Mr. Goose

milanuk · « **Reply #33 on:** January 27, 2005, 11:14:35 AM »

Quote from: Mueller Optics

Hi Monte,
All of our finger adjustable, target style turrets, have 60moa which is fairly broad considering the fine 1/8moa clicks.

Is there a specific model you would like the reticle substension on? I will be more than happy to get that info for you.

Best Regards
MO

Thanks for the response. Actually 60 MOA is about what I expected or was hoping for, since Sightron's have about 58-59MOA in the 6-24x models w/ the 1/8 MOA clicks. Any difference btwn the higher magnification models, such as the 8-25x, in MOA, and the 4-16x? Often times I see the higher X models such as the 6-24x model cited above having less than a 4-16x model (I think the Sightron runs close to 70 MOA in the 4-16x, IIRC, and if I'm not mistaken, the same phenmenon is present when you look at the numbers for Burris's scopes as well... some of their 8-32x models run as low as 22 MOA, though). I'm not sure of the exact mechanics behind the difference, but I've seen it on a number of brands' spec charts.

As far as the reticle subtensions... the 8.5-25x Eraticator and the 4-16x Sport Dot would be the two I'm primarily interested in... being able to check the relative fine-ness of the reticle on the target is something that I'm interested in, more so than trying to use specific dimensions for ranging, other than mil-dot reticles. As an example... the 4-16x has a #4 reticle, w/ a 1/2 MOA (all it says on the site is 'less than 1" @ 200yds) dot, which seems a little coarse... 1/4 minute dots w/ regular duplex or plain fine crosshairs is more normal, or even 1/8 minute dots, considering the 1/8 minute clicks. I realize w/ the lighted reticle you are targeting a slightly different market niche (big-game/predator hunting) than the pure target shooting circles, so I presume thats the reason for the relatively coarse reticle? On the upcoming 4-16x mildot models... no mention on the web page as of yet as to what magnification the mil-dot reticle is supposed to be calibrated for. I would presume 16x, or is each new owner supposed to construct a 'barber pole' to verify what power the 1 mil spacing corresponds w/ 3.6" @ 100yds to make sure? When looking at the 'actual' pictures of the 8-25x Eraticator reticle, it looks like a *lot* less than 1/2 minute in plain day light, which is good. Not sure about w/ the illumination turned on, as that would seem to vary w/ level and eye sensitivity.

Sorry if it sounds like I'm bustin' your chops. These are the points/concerns that come to mind off the top of my head, and I'd suspect might be floating around other peoples minds as well. Can't make everyone happy, especially at your price point, but it would be nice to know where thing stand.

Thank you for your time,

Monte

Mueller Optics · « **Reply #34 on:** January 27, 2005, 01:19:02 PM »

Wow, you guys are giving me another full time job. Forgive me if my answers are somewhat short because my business does require my full-time attention. After the Show Show I would expect my visits here to become less frequent due to all the dealer promotions we will be running, new models we are working on and the ones we will be introducing.

All our scopes that feature finger adjustable 1/8moa adjustments have the same 60 moa

The size of the dot appears smaller in the photo due to the camera but when illuminated, it does remain the same size, its just the camera that makes it appear different. The dot size has become somewhat of an issue, so we just list it as a micro-dot although it is just under a 1/2 minute (closer to .375). The Dot on all the Sport Dot models are also the same size.

The 4-16x50AO mil-dot is based off the scope being on 10x

Your right, our main target is big game hunters but the Eratciator has become a very popular model among rimfire benchrest shooters. We are currently evaluating a few new models including a few tactical mil dots with fully exposed target turrets and a 8.5-25x44AO with a 1/16 minute target dot (non-illuminated).

I'm currently gathering all the reticle subtensions and will post them on the website in the next week. I will come back and post a link to them as well.

Thanks again
MO

milanuk · « **Reply #35 on:** January 27, 2005, 04:03:28 PM »

Well, I thank you for your time and effort answering questions so far. Certainly more than I've ever gotten out of Weaver! I don't know if you are familiar w/ Burris or not, but if you put it in a PDF similar to the one they have on their website and put up on your web page so any who want it can find it, w/o constantly pestering you

1/16 minute might be a bit much... 1/8 is pretty common I think. But hey, if you think it will sell...

Thanks again,

Monte

Dave in WV · « **Reply #36 on:** January 28, 2005, 04:35:33 AM »

Thanks for your patience answering questions. Your scopes Jon has listed over at The Optic Zone look interesting.

SeaBass · « **Reply #37 on:** February 06, 2005, 07:16:16 AM »

goose7856,
How's that comparison coming? I would be very interested to hear how the Mueller optics compare to the Nikon BM series or the Bushnell 3200 elite for that matter. I really like the looks of that red dot reticle. 1/8 MOA adjustments are nice as well.

VTDW · « **Reply #38 on:** February 06, 2005, 09:51:52 AM »

I just ordered the 3-9x40 Sport Dot from Mueller this a.m. They beat the Mueller web site price. $134.95 + free shipping.

I think this will be just the ticket as I am going hog hunting in two weeks and I think the red dot and great price is just perfect for dusk and at night. Why spend big bucks for a red dot or illuminated reticle 3X9X40 for this type of hunting anyway? Doesn't make sense to me.

Dave

goose7856 · « **Reply #39 on:** February 06, 2005, 11:47:41 AM »

Seabass,

I havent really done as much side by side testing as I would like, but I have bought each out separately. Truthfully, so far I havent been able to make a big difference. One thing I do remember is the Mueller X-HAIRS were slightly harder to see at dusk, w/o the Illumination. With thye illuminated reticle it was great, but w/o it became harder to see. (Just my observations, others may disagree).

When the illuminated reticle is used at duck, I had to set it at 1, or it was too overpowering for me. During the day, I checked it and it seems that thr 6-8 range or the reticle works the best.

I wont be able to do my side by side comparison tonite, b/c we have company for the Super Bowl, but I will try and remember to do the side by side testing tom.

Sorry for the wait for the review

quickdtoo · « **Reply #40 on:** February 06, 2005, 12:20:55 PM »

While you're waiting for Goose's review, here are a some user reviews on the Eraticator to read...

http://rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=465204

And Graybeard's review of the 4-16x50 Sport Dot

http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=31638

bubba77 · « **Reply #41 on:** February 10, 2005, 04:18:45 PM »

Been doing a lot of reading lately on these Mueller scopes and do have a question that maybe someone here could answer. Searching Mueller's website I've noticed in the specs of 3 different models of the red dot scopes that they all say that the lenses are fully multi-coated. However for each model I read this for, the word "fully" was specified differently. What I mean is that the word fully was underlined for one model, in quotes for another model, and underlined and in quotes for the third. Does this mean that there is some difference in the models when speaking of the coating on the lenses? I assumed fully multi-coated meant the same for all 3 but wanted to query the discussion here since it appears that the "Mueller man" visits here often with responses to questions.

Also, would like some input (opinions) on which model would be best suitable for the hunting conditions I frequent. I am a whitetail deer hunter that is not really concerned with taking long shots. My range of shots would be taken in the range of 15 yds up to around 70 yds in hard woods mostly but if I ride the edge of a field and see a monster at 100 yds I want to feel comfortable in my ability to hit it at that distance. I was leaning toward the 4-10X44 because I don't want that HUGE Eraticator overbearing my beautiful rifle and I don't think I'll be praire dog hunting where I live which is what the web site states was the intention of the design for that scope. This purchase will be my first scope ever so I'm doing quite a bit of research to select the best scope for the money. I'm reading lots of positives about Mueller and am impressed with what I've read so far. Thanks to anyone that can provide me with some good feedback.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #42 on:** February 10, 2005, 05:03:25 PM »

Welcome to GBO, Bubba77!

I'd recommend the 2-7x32 Multi-Shot out of the Mueller line up, it's one great scope for the type of hunting you do. Set on 2x, it's got a great field of view for the quick close up shots and a quick turn of the power ring will take you up to 7x for closer examination of the big buck's rack that you can't quite see well at 100 or more yds. Here's my initial review of the scope. Right now The Optic Zone has free shipping on the Mueller scopes, so check em out there...

http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=49378

Mueller Optics · « **Reply #43 on:** February 11, 2005, 12:59:37 AM »

bubba77,
All Mueller Scopes use the same "Fully Multi-Coated Lenses", I just didnt remember how I listed it from one page to the next, thats why it appears differently.

For the ranges you listed, Quikdtoo is absolutly right! The 2-7 Multi Shot is all you will ever need, I used it this past season on a .243 for deer season and feel its the best of our scopes for shots less than 250yds. If your shots may be as close as 15yds as listed, you will need a scope in the 1, 1.5 or 2 power max.

Thanks
MO

bubba77 · « **Reply #44 on:** February 13, 2005, 03:43:21 PM »

Thanks for the feedback guys. The only thing Im a little concerned with with the 2-7 MultiShot is "The Circle". I worry that this might "clutter" up my view. Any opinion on this?

Also, most of my hunting career had me using my trusty 12 gauge. Just got my first rifle from my father-in-law for Christmas. Remington 270. No scope (which is why Im shopping). Any scope I've ever used was when I borrowed a friend's rifle. This has me in a bit of unfamiliar territory when it comes to the mounting of the scope once I purchase one. Like I said, I've been doing as much reading and gaining as much info about scope specifics as possible. In my research I have not been able to find much on the actual mounting of a scope. I've read many reviews about how easy it was to mount their (insert your favorite brand here) scope. Would like some info on mounts and rings. Not exactly sure what a ring is or what its purpose is. Pretty sure I gather what a mount is but not sure the pros and cons of any specific one. Anyone care to help a newbie to this scope mounting quest?

Thanks,

Bubba77 :-)

goose7856 · « **Reply #45 on:** February 14, 2005, 05:10:54 PM »

I finally had the scope mounted, and have shot my new 917VS....

I still havent had time to do a really good side by side test b/t my Nikon BM and the Mueller Tactical...but here is what I can say.....I have spent a good bit of time behind the glass of each scopes so I now feel I can give an opinion.......

The click adjustments on the Mueller are fantastic....right on where they should be. The clicks on my BM were kind of jumpy, but still managable.

It is CRITICAL with the Mueller to adjust the AO to the distance you are shooting b/c if not, everything is blurry.......but after the AO is adjusted, all is clear. On the BM, the AO placement was not nearly as critical. No matter the distance (up to say 300 yards, and as close as 10 yards), with the AO set at 100 yards, everything can be viewed clearly throughout the mag. range (at ten yards and 12x, it gets blurry, but that can be expected). The AO on the BM almost never has to be adjusted for a clear sight picture (to my eyes).

The last comparison I can give is the glass. To MY eyes, the Nikon is a little clearer, and I can see longer at dusk out of the Nikon. It is a very slight margin, but enough to me where I can tell a difference. However, their is a price difference so the Mueller ranks very well for the price.

If you have anyy more questions, just ask......

TIA

Mueller Optics · « **Reply #46 on:** February 15, 2005, 03:19:21 AM »

Quote from: goose7856

It is CRITICAL with the Mueller to adjust the AO to the distance you are shooting b/c if not, everything is blurry.......but after the AO is adjusted, all is clear. On the BM, the AO placement was not nearly as critical. No matter the distance (up to say 300 yards, and as close as 10 yards), with the AO set at 100 yards, everything can be viewed clearly throughout the mag. range (at ten yards and 12x, it gets blurry, but that can be expected). The AO on the BM almost never has to be adjusted for a clear sight picture (to my eyes).
TIA

That brings up a good point Goose.
If focusing on the AO is more critical it leaves less room for Parallax error. Depending on how much Parallax is evident with the AO set incorrectly, could be a problem if the AO "almost never has to be adjusted for a clear sight picture".

MO

goose7856 · « **Reply #47 on:** February 15, 2005, 11:26:04 AM »

Good point. I guess I havent really thought about the parralex for the Nikon since it is on my 30-06, and it really doesnt effect me that much......but the Mueller is on a 17, so that makes a big difference.

Very good point, sorry if I was misleading.

VTDW · « **Reply #48 on:** February 15, 2005, 01:10:43 PM »

You will be getting a report from me after this coming weekend. We are going down S. of Dallas to hunt hogs on a fellow's ranch Thur. Fri. & Sat. Seems that the hogs are playing havoc on his whitetail management and he wants them shot. Lucky us!! I have mounted the 3-9X40 Sport Dot on my 444S. I love the 1/8 clicks and it took only 4 shots to hit the X at 50 yd. with another to make sure. I have the Optronics Night Blaster and the Sport Dot and they should be just the ticket for night hunting.

Dave

DEPUTY · « **Reply #49 on:** February 16, 2005, 04:48:23 PM »

see yah at novi show mr mueller. me at tom richardson cant wait to tell yah how happy i have been with my 3 10 44

Mueller Optics · « **Reply #50 on:** February 17, 2005, 01:20:43 PM »

Deputy,
I cant wait, its a great show and I'm glad to see that you guys are attending this year.

For anyone interested, we will be at the Outdoorama Show in Novi, Michigan from Feb 23 through Feb 27....

Hope to see ya'll there!

MO
Rich