"Safety" of Reduced Loads in .38 Spl vs .357 Mag b

[Old No7]

I'm looking for some feedback on loads that are allowed (or not) on an indoor 50' range.  Where you read ".357" below, you can substitute ".32, .41 or .44"; as the issue is the same.  The rule I am questioning is that you can use lead-bullet reduced-power target loads in certain "approved calibers" only -- but there's an interesting twist to this.

You CAN use:
.38 Special lead target loads in a .38 Special revolver, or
.38 Special lead target loads in a .357 Magnum revolver

However, you CANNOT use the same loading -- a reduced power, lead bullet target load -- in the same .357 Magnum revolver IF it's loaded in a .357 Mag CASE.

That's right, the longer magnum brass makes the same load illegal to use!  The primer, powder type, powder charge, bullet weight, recoil, muzzle blast, the hole in the target and the velocity may all be the same -- accuracy might even be better -- but you can't shoot the reduced-power loads in a magnum case.

Some of the Club member's say their concern is "safety", but that doesn't seem to hold any water to me.  Their thought is if someone "sees" me using the Magnum cases, they may think it's OK to shoot magnum loads.  My thinking is the visible appearance of the Magnum revolver itself is much more apparent than the short difference in the length of the brass.  (Which is more visible to you from 10' away???  Hint: It's not the brass...)  Plus, the range rules clearly state "low velocity, lead-bullet target loads" only.

I believe the issue is one of "trust"; and while they may trust my reduced-power loads as I had been an Officer for 11+ years, they don't seem to want to trust the other 300+ members not to use full-power Magnum loads in their magnum handguns.  But a qood question to ask is:  What's to prevent an irresponsible shooter from hot-loading a 9mm, .40 S&W , .44 Special or .45 ACP or Long Colt and using those loads indoors???  Nothing -- and by looking at the brass cases, you can't tell if they are operating outside the rules or not.

The Club is reluctant to have me bring in my Chrony to prove my reduced loads (in the magnum case) are in fact target loads, and so far they have rejected all of my arguments to allow the longer cases.  As a past Officer, I can support the Club's decision if it's made based on sound logic, but it seems to be based on fear and irrational thinking of the "worst-case scenario" -- which still exists with the other "allowed" calibers by the way!

Any thoughts that might help me change this ruling???  Thanks!

Old No7

[bigdaddytacp]

I'm looking for some feedback on loads that are allowed (or not) on an indoor 50' range.  Where you read ".357" below, you can substitute ".32, .41 or .44"; as the issue is the same.  The rule I am questioning is that you can use lead-bullet reduced-power target loads in certain "approved calibers" only -- but there's an interesting twist to this.

You CAN use:
.38 Special lead target loads in a .38 Special revolver, or
.38 Special lead target loads in a .357 Magnum revolver

However, you CANNOT use the same loading -- a reduced power, lead bullet target load -- in the same .357 Magnum revolver IF it's loaded in a .357 Mag CASE.

That's right, the longer magnum brass makes the same load illegal to use!  The primer, powder type, powder charge, bullet weight, recoil, muzzle blast, the hole in the target and the velocity may all be the same -- accuracy might even be better -- but you can't shoot the reduced-power loads in a magnum case.

Some of the Club member's say their concern is "safety", but that doesn't seem to hold any water to me.  Their thought is if someone "sees" me using the Magnum cases, they may think it's OK to shoot magnum loads.  My thinking is the visible appearance of the Magnum revolver itself is much more apparent than the short difference in the length of the brass.  (Which is more visible to you from 10' away???  Hint: It's not the brass...)  Plus, the range rules clearly state "low velocity, lead-bullet target loads" only.

I believe the issue is one of "trust"; and while they may trust my reduced-power loads as I had been an Officer for 11+ years, they don't seem to want to trust the other 300+ members not to use full-power Magnum loads in their magnum handguns.  But a qood question to ask is:  What's to prevent an irresponsible shooter from hot-loading a 9mm, .40 S&W , .44 Special or .45 ACP or Long Colt and using those loads indoors???  Nothing -- and by looking at the brass cases, you can't tell if they are operating outside the rules or not.

The Club is reluctant to have me bring in my Chrony to prove my reduced loads (in the magnum case) are in fact target loads, and so far they have rejected all of my arguments to allow the longer cases.  As a past Officer, I can support the Club's decision if it's made based on sound logic, but it seems to be based on fear and irrational thinking of the "worst-case scenario" -- which still exists with the other "allowed" calibers by the way!

Any thoughts that might help me change this ruling???  Thanks!

Old No7

...........There can be/is a real safety worry......reduced loads in a larger case can result in a "secondary explosion effect" due to the small amount of powder in a larger case that can be spread out along the case and change the burning rate/pressure? of the powder/load.....this is seen in the "for no apparent reason" explosions in the old 2.7bullseye load in 38specials....test with double and even triple charges won't blow like the "load" that did blow up in some of these loads.........so they think it can't be a simple case of a overload but a "just right" combo of space inside the case and position of the powder........there was a good article in a old Handloader or American Rifleman that explained the math and probability of this being the cause of radical blowups in "target load" and similar problems occour in 45LC loadings and thus some reccomend "fillers" in the light loads in that big case.......the blowup's are a small percentage danger ....BUT they are real....since we can't see in the mind of the range rule maker.....I don't know if they are really concerned about the danger or the damage to the range/equipment? .......good luck and good shooting-loading!!

[Tacoma]

As you mention, it's likely a matter of trust. While YOU migth be trustworthy to properly/safely load your 357 brass to 38 sp velocities, others may not. ( Not that allot would load the 357 brass  anyway.) More importantly, it's not reasonable to ask the range officer to determine who is OK and who isn't. Calling out 38SP only makes it simple to enforce at just a glance. It also looks good in court if they ever had an accident.  FWIW, I've seen other ranges enforce this  "special only rule" with 357 and 44 mag.