Need Recommendation - Looking to buy a hunting air-rifle

[Yukon Gold]

I have a gun safe with over 40 rifles/pistols, but as far as air-rifles goes, I am less than a "newbe".  I currently have a Sherridan Blue Streak that I got for Christmas back around 1975, great air-rifle - must have shot a million round through it over the last 30 years.

I am looking to purchase a good / accurate / reliable rifle - but don't know where to start.  This will be for hunting and some plinking.  Not competitive type shooting.

I am looking to spend about $300 (actual, not MSRP)

So please provide me with some good suggestions:

Here are some other questions I really would like some direction on:

1)  Pellet Size / Caliber - which is best?
2)  Type action?  Single Stroke/multi-stroke/compressed gas??
3)  Muzzle Velocity?  What is good? what is too fast?
4)  Good sites with this info

Thanks for any reply's

[alfsauve]

$300's going to a little slim for accurate, reliable, and hard hitting.  That price would definitely rule out PCPs.   You can look at the Chinese stuff, but you may not be happy with the quality or the politics.  

Go look at Beeman (R9), or the Weihrach equivelents.   Look at RWS and BSA, Air Arms and Webley (Longbow and Tomahawk).  These are in the ball park.    I'd bet the Beeman and Webley are your best bets, though with scope it'll run a might more than $300.

That's my opinion and I'm sticking with it.  Your milage may vary.

Alf

[Yukon Gold]

Alfsauve said:

$300's going to a little slim for accurate, reliable, and hard hitting. That price would definitely rule out PCPs.  

Maybe I am going too cheap.  What cost am I really looking at?

 I don't mind spending what I need - however I am a firm believer in the laws of diminishing returns.  Spend what I need to get a good product - after that, it becomes more "bells and whistles" that I could do without.

[Rustyinfla]

For that kind of money you would be best to send your Sheridan to Mac1 airguns. He can do his steriod treatment to your rifle and turn it into a high class shooter. That would be MAC1 Airguns.

          Rusty <><

[Lawdog]

You can look at the Chinese stuff, but you may not be happy with the quality or the politics.

Sorry Alf but, politics aside, that isn't always true.

Yukon Gold,

Here are some other questions I really would like some direction on:

1) Pellet Size / Caliber - which is best?
2) Type action? Single Stroke/multi-stroke/compressed gas??
3) Muzzle Velocity? What is good? what is too fast?
4) Good sites with this info

1.]  For hunting the larger caliber pellets are better.  Go with a .22 caliber to start as there is a larger slection of pellets and can be found in your local stores such as Wal-Mart, etc..

2.]  Single stroke or PCP is better for hunting than multi-stroke as they make less noise(foregrip slapping the pump chamber).

3.]  At least 750 fps. is better for hunting.

4.]  Go to http://www.compasseco.com/shop/products.html?maingroup=Tech%20Force%20Air%20Guns&secondgroup=Air%20Rifles and view the Tech Force offerings from Compasseco, Inc..  The Tech Force line is a powerful, accurate line of rifles that are a good value.  Compasseco is a great company to do business with.  PM me if you would like some recommendations.  Lawdog
 

[alfsauve]

Sorry Alf but, politics aside, that isn't always true.    

 
I made the statement somewhat ambiguous.  "May" was the key word.  I'm trying not to step on anybody.  From what I've read you got some on one side, some on the other....with Chinese air guns that is.
 
Alf

[Yukon Gold]

Rustyinfla said:

For that kind of money you would be best to send your Sheridan to Mac1 airguns. He can do his steriod treatment to your rifle and turn it into a high class shooter. That would be MAC1 Airguns.

Rusty - do you have any experience with this?  Seems for under $100 I can get my Sheridan "upgraded" - apprears interesting.  Might do it regardless if I but another air gun or not if worth the effort and additional cost.

Lawdog said:

view the Tech Force offerings from Compasseco, Inc.. The Tech Force line is a powerful, accurate line of rifles that are a good value.

Went to that site - the Chinese air rifles were cheap (in price).  How do they stack up against the Beeman R9, R1, HW97?  I have been looking at them - and they seem pretty good.  I'm sure you like the  Tech Force, otherwise you wouldn't have recommended them.  

By the way, thanks for your replies!

[Airsporter]

All your question (except #4) are contingent upon you defining exactly what you want to hunt.  You can plink with anything.

#4:  http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537

[Lawdog]

Yukon Gold,

How do they stack up against the Beeman R9, R1, HW97?

The Tech Force Model 25 is a very accurate rifle with a C-T-C rating equal to the R9 or R1 from Beeman(I have an R10).  The Tech Force 99M is a clone for the HW97.  Yeah, the Chinese did a very good job of doing so.  Add the MacCari spring system and an accuracy rating of C-T-C 0.13" and it gives you even a bit more power with excellent accuracy.  I have the Tech Force 99m in .22 caliber that I mounted a BSA 3-12X air rifle scope on for a low cost truck rifle(didn't want to leave one of my more expensive air rifles in the truck while at work).  I bought a Tech Force M97 in .177 for my sister(she paid me back) to control the pests around her place.  All I am trying to say is that there are Chinese air rifles that are worth the money if you buy from the right company.  Compasseco, Inc. takes these rifles and has their gunsmiths go over them before reselling them.  Go to http://www.compasseco.com/article_tf97_flagship.htm and read the review by Tom Gaylord on the TF 97 or the review on the XS-B50 at http://www.compasseco.com/article_xsb50.htm by Randy Mitchell.  Jim Chapman has also done a review on this model.  Go to http://www.geocities.com/echochap/xsB50.html to read Jim’s review.  The TF 50 is a clone of the now discontinued Daystate Huntsman and the TF 40 is a clone of the Air Arms TX 200.  Some Chinese air rifles are well worth the money, in fact are a great bargain.  They offer an alternative to those that either can’t afford air rifles in the $400.00 at up range or don’t want to spend the money.  Lawdog
 

[Yukon Gold]

Thanks Lawdog for your reply, I think I will give the Tech Force 99 Magnum a try.  Certainly looks like a good deal, and you have had a good experience with them.

I will give it a try.

I'm still hoping to get more info on possibly tuning up my old Sheridan as Rustyinfla suggested - still awaiting more info on that.

I would like to keep this thread open to also include others opinions on low cost air-rifles.

Thanks!

[Dand]

From my reading I see that RWS 350's and Beeman R9's are quite popular for hunting but all the advice I see encourages buyers to really think about the type of hunting they want to do.  There is an  outfit that has an extensive web site that reviews a lot of the higher end guns - Straight Shooters.  YOu might want to find them and read over some of their reviews.  Some folks really like that outfit, others feel they can do better other places. But there is a lot of info easily available.

Also, you will probably want to consider a scope - get an AIR GUN rated scope if you get a spring powered air rifle as the two way recoil cycle of a medium to magnum air rifle can tear apart a good center fire rated scope.

I have used a .22 BSA super sport for some grouse hunting.  I need to get it tuned and more practice on it.  Precision pellet placement is key whether a .177 or .22.  In fact I was better on grouse with my .177 Beeman R7 (light powered) than the BSA as I took more time making the shot.  After a couple poor shots with the BSA last fall I realised I need to be more careful and get a better scope. I'm looking at the Swift Premier 3-9 AO Air Gun rated scope.  When I first started I saw no need for the powerful scopes commonly discussed for air guns.  Now I understand.  I need to pick out the exact spot on the head of a grouse hiding in the brush and just can't aim for center-of-grouse as I might with a .22 long rifle.  

Pellet selection can be important too.  I found I was bouncing light weight round nose pellets off the feathers of grouse.  I went to a heavier, semi round nose pellet that didn't deflect and penetrated better.

Also one may need to try a bunch of different pellets to find the best accuracy.  Straight Shooters offers pellet samplers at a reasonable cost - very handy.  

I've had 2 Chinese air rifles.  The first was a springer in the mid 80's - it was very powerful but random in accuracy crude, and terrible trigger.  I now have a QB 78 CO2 gun - pretty accurate but not in the power range for hunting.  I think recent  Chinese guns may have improved but like Lawdog says, I think QC is variable and I see a lot of posts recommending doing business with a dealer that does a full presale check - like Compasseco or Fun Supply.  My QB78 had some seal failures and its off to Mac1 for a tune and reseal.  If I wanted to save money it would have been cheaper to buy a decent Springer like Beeman R series, RWS 94, CZ 631 or similar.  

But the QB is all steel compared to the current Crosman equivalent, and I figured CO2 would be easier for training my sons.

well I started to offer 2 cents and ended up on overkill HTH.  And note I am tending to mix apples (spring) and oranges (CO2 ).

Welcome to airgunning - I'm finding it every bit as fascinating as firearms.

[Lawdog]

Dand,

But the QB is all steel compared to the current Crosman equivalent, and I figured CO2 would be easier for training my sons.

Could you do a sort of report on that Co2?

My experience with Co2's is from using them in rifles YEARS ago(and in my two old Crosmen .357's in .22 caliber that are from the mid 1970’s) and the seals leaked badly(even when new).  Every time you needed it to knock off a gopher, mole or whatever in the yard, the little cylinder was always empty.  Are the newer rifles being made today any better?  How is the accuracy?  Lawdog
 

[dave]

Are the newer rifles being made today any better? How is the accuracy?

Better than what? The old Crosman gassers are some of the best ever made. I have a few that have been holding gas continuously for several years now with no signs of leakage. The model 114 single shot and 118 bolt action repeater bulk guns are of exceptional quality, and the 160 is generally recognized as the epitome of CO2 sport rifles. In fact, its what the Chinese used as a model for the QB mentioned above. The 111/112 pistols from the 1950s are about the best CO2 sport pistols you'll find, and the Crosman 600  is still the only inline- mag fed, gas operated semi-auto CO2 pistol you are likely to find, even 45 years after its introduction.
 The seals in the newer guns are crap, and don't last long when left exposed to gas for an extended period. Crosman quality has steadily declined since the 1970s, and most guns built since then are not so great, some are downright awful.

[ABaker]

Crosman quality has steadily declined since the 1970s, and most guns built since then are not so great, some are downright awful.

I checked out the Benjamin Sheridan line of pump pellet guns now owned by Crossman, the new ones are cheap looking. The one I looked at had two different shades of wood, and also the lines didn't match up all that well. Quality means alot, and Crossman isn't quality.

[vasilenko]

Pumping aint all that great, i recommend a nice quality springer .17 or .22 cal will cut it. You will want something that can get more than 1 shot within 10 seconds. I own daisy powerline 1000s and a b-42 chinese. I also have a remington airmaster 77 pumper witch i had a lot of fun with over the last year with no problem. Just go down to the nearest wall mart or sporting good store and get a nice break barrel rifle.

[Yukon Gold]

Lawdog said:

Go to http://www.compasseco.com/shop/products.html?maingroup=Tech%20Force%20 Air%20Guns&secondgroup=Air%20Rifles and view the Tech Force offerings from Compasseco, Inc.. The Tech Force line is a powerful, accurate line of rifles that are a good value. Compasseco is a great company to do business with.

Yukon Gold Said:

Thanks Lawdog for your reply, I think I will give the Tech Force 99 Magnum a try. Certainly looks like a good deal, and you have had a good experience with them.

Well, I went ahead and ordered the Tech Force 99 Magnum and here are some notes on my experience and initial opinions:

1)  I ordered the Rifle in .22 cal pellet via phone vs. online since I had a few questions.  Got a friendly person, who helped me out placing my order.
2)  The pellet rifle arrived on my doorstep three days later, just as promised.  When they shipped it, they sent me a notice with the UPS tracking number.
3) I ordered the Rifle, a 3x12 air rifle scope, and mounts.
4) The whole package set me back $213 with shipping.
5)  The rifle is pretty nice - finish wise.  Good wood, metal work is better than expected.  Only disappointment were the sights.  Plastic in front, spring steel and plastic in rear.  They centainly could have done a better job there.  Otherwise the rifle looked very good.
6) I set up a 36' indoor range.  Shot from the kitchen, down the hall, to the other end of the house.  My wife was gone for a couple of weeks, so no problem there.
7)  Cocking and loading no problem.  Nice smooth action, better than expected.
 Shot great! Continues to give me a ragged hole at 36'  Shot a lot better than I thought it would.
9)  The scope quality is pretty good.  Supposed to be made in the same factory as Bushnell scopes.  I am pretty happy.  Clear picture, and is working out just fine.
10) The only major dissappointment is the cr*ppy scope mounts.  No wonder they were so cheap.  Cast in pot metal, with screws so soft that they strip with no effort.  I swear they were made of pure lead they stripped so easily.  Now I am going to have to drill out the screws once I find some decent mounts.
11)  The instruction manual left a lot to be desired, I wish it had more info on maintenance and break in.  It basically was 2 pieces of photo-copied paper, folded over.  Thats it.

Overall, I am so far very happy with the quality of the pellet rifle, both in quality and customer service.  Prices were very good also.

Sights could be better, but I intended to use a scope, so that was not much of an issue.  However, if you order from them, do not get those cheap Chinese scope mounts - you will regret it.

[Lawdog]

Yukon Gold,

Only disappointment were the sights. Plastic in front, spring steel and plastic in rear. They centainly could have done a better job there. Otherwise the rifle looked very good.

I agree but since I don't use open sights on any or my air guns it doesn't really matter to me.

10) The only major dissappointment is the cr*ppy scope mounts. No wonder they were so cheap. Cast in pot metal, with screws so soft that they strip with no effort. I swear they were made of pure lead they stripped so easily. Now I am going to have to drill out the screws once I find some decent mounts.

Can't help you with this one.  I use nothing but Beeman or BLK rings/mounts.  One thing about the TF 99M is the accuracy will just get better as you break in the rifle.  Usually about 500 to 1,000 shots.  Lawdog