410 cyl. bore pattern??

[Cookiemann]

Heard a lot of talk about startin' youngsters off with 410 being a bad idea because the pattern is so tight that they miss frequently and it doesn't build their confidence.  I was wondering if you could improve on performance by simply taking a 26in barrel and cutting it to 24 or 22 inches, making it a cylinder barrel,  and throwing a bit wider pattern.  Recoil is a factor too.  I want 'em to look forward to going and having FUN.  If they miss a lot and it makes 'em hurt, they are not going to have FUN.  Anyone ever pattern one and have some thought on this subject.  Any and all opinions welcome.  Thanks guys.

[dave375hh]

The reason .410 patterns are small is pellet count not choke. Pattern density fails when patterns get bevond about 18-19 inches in dia. I shoot my .410's fairly often at skeet & sub-guage Sporting events. I usually just use a modified choke all the time as it gives the propper density at the usual yardages of these games. I have found IC to be of little use in a .410, and cylinder would be worse. At one time I had a Brng 3 bbl skeet set and the .410 bbls measured a tight modified(.402 in both .405 is nominal mod dia.).

If you want to start a kid out right do it with a .28 ga. That extra 1/4 oz of shot makes a bigger differance than you would think. The .410 is an experts gun not a kids gun to learn from.

[Cookiemann]

Thanks.  That's what I was lookin' for, someone who knows that stuff.  How is the recoil on a 28ga?  Still less than a 20 or 12?

[dave375hh]

A shooting buddy of mine bought 4 28 ga. NEF singles , one for each of his grandkids. They range in age from 6 to 11 and none of them complain about recoil. Each of them caught on fairly quick, and had success the first time out. The 28 ga. kicks much less than a 12 or 20 given similar weight guns. Holding up the weight was more of a problem for the little guys than recoil. The extra 1/4 oz of shot gives a usable pattern of 22 to 24 inches, and the extra 4 to 6 inches(compaired to a .410) makes a big difference in hit probabilty and the resultant big smiles from the kids(and Grandpa). They each shot a full round of skeet (all singles) and wanted more. So the recoil was a non-issue with these reg sized kids, No future pro football linemen here.

[DaveH]

Cookiman,
                   I have both a .4100 NEF and a 28 ga H&R and I can tell you the 28 would be a great choice to start a young shoot on.  The .410 shot collum is very long and like said before if you try to widen it you loose your pattern.  The 28 ga with a light load doesn't kick much more the .410

[gino]

I have an older Springfield M6 with the cylinder choke bore in the .410 barrel. At 25m with 3" 7 1/2 shot loads there are holes in the pattern big enough that you could throw a cat through them.
gino  :grin:

[ScatterGunner]

i brought up my 2 boys on .410's. they are much harder to learn to shoot with than 28, or 20. but once they got their leads down, they did pretty good. my younger one shot clay targets at camp for 2 summers before graduating to bobwhites. i even gave him a choice of guns, SxS, O/U, and he picked the 410 pardner.

i've taught a few kids with shotguns and my direct experience was that if the kid has a short attention span, and who doesn't or didn't, there is no instant gratification, so they get frustrated. if he is the pulling the trigger with his head up and the gun an inch or so off his shoulder, he will both always shoot high and miss, and get a nice little kick from the gun. if a kid was afraid of recoil, i had him hold a 2 x 4 like a gun and pull it hard into his shoulder,  then get his stance right. i would give the 2 x 4 a little pop on the end to simulate recoil. that usually made them smile and say "is that all ?"

28 gauge is not the magic starting gauge. size the gun and the load to the kid, get his stance right, and teach him how to shoulder a shotgun before he ever fires a gun. and, don't start him out with grampa's 4 pound 12 gauge side by side guild gun that kicks like a mule with skeet loads !

a real configence builder is taking the kid out to a skeet field and him shoot at low 7's. this usually makes them grin from ear to ear !

sg

[Cookiemann]

Thanks to all who responded.  Lots of food for thought.  I see, right away, that I need to spend some time with the "Little Guys" before I make a decision.  
 Thanks Again!