8x57 range report.........arrgh!!!

[kombi1976]

Well, folks, I wish this report on my k98 was as comprehensive as I thought it was going to be this morning but it's not to be.
After calling a friend and finding out another place in Sydney that has a 100m range was open I decided not to go to the indoor 50m range.

I thought "Gee, as far as I can remember it's about the same driving time & at least I can properly test it."

Thing was it took me ages to find. When I got there I had to look around for the range officer and pay my range fees ($16) and then another $5 to hire a bench rest and bag. Already money was mounting up if you add the petrol. When I said I was sighting in and trying out loads he said:

"Well, take it along to 50m range first and put some on the paper there before moving to the 100m section."

That seemed sensible.
So I took my stuff over there and planted 2 PMC 170gn factory loads on the target about 3" apart using the iron sights. That was enough for me. I approached the range officer to ask could I go and fetch the target.

"Not unless you want a really nasty hot feeling in your guts," he replied.

So I had to borrow a spotting scope to check out the shots. I figured they must've been shooting for a short time.
Since I was satisfied with the 50m performance I decided to move to the 100m section. I had to again distract the R.O. from an important conversation on turning pigs into collanders( :? ) where upon he told me to see the first range officer at the desk and pay another dollar for a new target for the 100m range?!  
This took more time and finally I set up on the 100m benches. I chambered a round and set up my digital camera so I could take a QuickTime movie of the rifle as it fired.
Then the R.O. says:

"10 minute warning before changing targets; empty or shoot anything in you chambers and open your bolts."

So I took the movie and shot and put my rifle up in the rack. Then they said either forward or off the bench level so I went forward to check the shot which got on the paper although a little low. To be frank, it was a miracle I hit anything. I'm at sea with the iron sights on the Mauser.  

When I returned I asked one R.O. "Can I set up my chronograph now?"

He looked at me like I'd come from another planet.

"You needed to tell us that before!" :|

I said that I hadn't realised that & when the R.O. asked the pig-collander R.O. nearby the guy said no in a big way. At this point I was more than a little perplexed at why they ran the range that way and it was already 12 noon. I was supposed to be back at my folks place 45mins away at 12:30.  :?
So I said:

"Can I set it up next change of targets?"

The answer with a few frowns and shruggs was "I guess so".

"Well, then," I asked "When is the next change?"

"One o'clock."  :eek:

I'm not a man given to swearing but I really felt like it then. :evil:
Who changes targets once an hour?!!!  :x  :evil:  :shock:
Maybe the benchrest guys who are retired and can spend literally hours there during the week are happy with the arrangement but I don't have the tie to waste. I'd dragged the rifle and ammo from home when we drove up to see my folks on Friday night, wasted a quarter of a tank of petrol getting out to the range, had already forked out $22 and now would go home with no targets. Only the excellent manners of a guy next to me who had a 3-9x40 scope on his .308 meant I got to see any of my shots after the change of targets.
I punched the final 2 PMC rounds onto paper and they hit the target.
And then I found out how much difference there is between US 8x57 factory loads and decent reloads........ :eek:
I could literally feel the difference in the recoil. :oops:
And this wasn't on max, it was a good 4 grains below.
The Mauser was the loudest gun on range and the barrel warmed up quick, even though I left about 4 minutes between shots.
It tracked a diagonal line falling from right to left and the final shot was a flyer.
I only ended up firing 10 shots through it, both because it was smacking the hell out of my shoulder even with a slip-on pad and because I had little time and couldn't see the point in wasting ammo on targets I couldn't take home and examine closer.
I did however take the QuickTime movie so feel free to have a look if you wish.
It's a bit big and has no sound but I found it interesting to check out. It also revealed the fact that I really need to fix my bench rest technique.

http://www.geocities.com/kombicat/NetShootingPics/8x57PMC170gnSilverdale26-2-05.MOV

Suffice to say, next time I'll arrange more time and make sure I have a scope on it.  :roll:

[kevin.303]

yeah, factory loads in military calibers suck. the 8X57 is loaded down so it's safe to fire in GEW 88's, and most factory .303 is safe enough for Lee-Metfords( i think). it took me a while but i finally accepted the fact that if you want accuracy, you gotta reload.

[jh45gun]

Sounds like you need to find a new range! The one I go to is all volunteer help. They change targets when you ask them to, let you retrieve targets and you can set up a crony. Oh the price for using such a nice range which has 25, 50, 100 and 200, and 300 yard berms DONATIONS you can donate what ever you want and the use of spotting scopes, sand bags and targets are provided FREE. Sorry to hear you had such a crummy expirience. Jim

[kombi1976]

Well, yeah, that's what I think.
The most frustrating thing about everything that's happened with our local range is that until they introduced the restrictions we had our shooting position built up about 1.5m above the range so the slope of the range put the benches in almost a straight line to the targets.
We could fire anything out to about 400yds if we wanted to use the top full bore targets.
Range fees were $5 & sand bags and targets were free, all paid for by the club.
It was ideal, a shooters dream.
Even though the fullbore club, the shotgun club, the pistol club and the police and prison wardens use it there were still times most weeks that you could book to head out there of an afternoon by yourself, put up the red flag and put some shots down the range on the bench with what ever needed sighting in.
Now we can really only use .22LR on that section of the range, you can only shoot centrefire prone and you aren't allowed any closer than 200yds and the whole thing is a farce.
The 50 metre indoor range in Sydney is similarly expensive but at least they have automated targets so you can retrieve them at the press of a button and set them at almost any distance.
The most frustrating thing is that I've really been trying to do the right thing and get the best idea of how the k98 shoots but the government seems set on stopping me do that.
With a constant emphasis on doing well at the Olympics and humane destruction of animals one would think that our government would be encouraging people to become better marksmen but instead the reverse seems true.
As for changing targets when you ask the R.O. with about 6 people actually shooting on Saturday it was lunacy to be so rigid about it.
If it'd been a competition I can guarantee they would've changed them more often.
In some ways I think it's just laziness or inflexibility.
Whatever the case it's time to wake up and smell the coffee.
With people travelling literally hours, and that's even if you live in Sydney, you can't afford to be so free and easy with time.
BTW, any comments on the movie?

[oso45-70]

Kombi1976

Didn't see the movie but the book was a good read. Tell me when we get to the end, That is if i'm not asleep. Hang in there pard maybe it won't get any worse, Or maybe not, Go figger...........Joe...........

[Dan Chamberlain]

Reloading makes all the difference!  I know, cheap ammo is plentiful, but really, why hammer yourself?  And that Turk stuff, half the cases split!  Do you really want your chamber filled with hot jets of gas from splits?  It's worthless stuff, except for the stripper clips that come with it.

I load my rifle down to about 2000 fps with jacketed and it's a pleasant range experience.  Plenty of bang, good accuracy and my cheek isn't bruised for two days when I'm done.  

If I could suggest to many people, buy one less rifle and and invest in reloading equipment.

Dan C[/img]

[kombi1976]

Well actually, Dan, I was only using PMC 170gn soft point and my own reloads. I wouldn't go near the Turk ammo. The primers are corrosive and with a barrel that's still shiny and sharp I don't want to risk it despite the fact I'd be cleaning it carefully, particularly when a new barrel is in the realm of $500.
Fortunately I had to invest in reloading gear 'cause my first rifle was a wild cat, a 25/303, so since then I've been reloading and enjoying the experience.
But the reloads were the real demon on Saturday in terms of recoil.
Put it this way:(Read out in salty pirate captains voice)
"Arrr!! She be a beastie under recoil!!!"  :eek:
Anyhow, I think I'll drag a couple of paper targets to a friends property, set 'em out at 50yds, perhaps 100, and just shoot rested using the open sights, probably over the hood of my pickup.
It'll be less savage on my shoulder and more indicative of how it'll perform in a hunting situation.
3 months back I could've shot a high powered rifle benchrest to my heart's content on the local range but the state range officer is a nazi and has gone around closing or restricting ranges.
Our local one is now only for sub 1500fps stuff i.e. 22lr and cowboy cartridges.
Ah, the joys of living in a police state......  :?

[Dan Chamberlain]

Mausers are a bugger with recoil.  Too much wood where the cheek sits I guess.  I load mine to about .32 Special Winchester velocities.  2000 to 2200 fps and it's pretty decent.  I also have started casting for it.  A buddy got me into it.  16 grains of 2400 and a 170 grain cast gas check bullet hard cast and it shoots around 1600 fps and gentle as a lamb.  It is a much recommended load with the cast lead crowd.  Very accurate as well.  I haven't gotten my Mauser to the range yet with them, but I've shot his rifles with that load and 1 inch groups at 50 yards are easily possible.  Under 3 at 100 is the norm and most people can't shoot their regular bear/bustin ammo any better than that with milspec sights.

Dan

[jh45gun]

Yep thats my cast load too for most of my milsurps. Its a good one! Easy on the brass also. Jim

[earschplitinloudenboomer]

Won't post the load, as it's a little hot, but after years of trying to get my 8X57 to shoot factory...gave up and bought dies. The original military barrel was just too pretty not to shoot. It is bright, shiney, and the rifleing is sharp and squared on top. I researched the action by date, general consensus is that 1940 is a good year for 98's. I started mild and worked up. I've gone from unable to keep them on a Redfield target, to under 1" at 100 yards (from a bench rest). 2002 season was great, 3 shots, 3 deer, didn't get hunt in '03, new job, didn't get a shot this past year. Gun was bubba'ed before I got it so I draw filed the steps out of the military barell and reblued it, forged the bolt handle, replaced the safety, added Timney adjustable trigger, tapped,drilled, put on Redfield base and rings, scoped, and whittled a stock (have since put it back in the lamenated original stock). Shooting Hornady 150 gr. Spire points, makes their little generator lights come on PDQ!!!  I really LOVE hunting with this old gun.

[Snowshoe]

I have a sportered Turk with a Ramline stock, and find it pleasent to shoot with most loads. It only becomes punishing whenI load up the 195g Hornadys to over 2500 fps. I find the Hornady 170g bullets are pleasant to shoot at 2630 fps,  are great medicine for whitetails. I have also found good accuracy with the Hornady 150g bullets, but have not used them for hunting.

[Mikey]

Guys - the Sellier and Bellot 196 gn softpoints I shoot at the stated factory velocity of better than 2500'/sec seem to be pussycats out of my Yugo 48A.  The same load shot from an older VZ-24 with a cut down and sporterized military stock slaps the heck out of my cheek but still isn't all that bad.  

A VZ-CZ 24/52 in stock military configuration is very easy to shoot and very easy on the recoil.  

Now, all that being said, I am waiting for a Husquavarna made 98 Sporter in 8mm (not a sporterized mil-surp, but an original sporter) to come into my local shop and I will see how badly that kicks off the bench.  I may have to re-stock it to cut down on the recoil a bit but let's see.  Mikey.