What about the 7x57 Mauser?

[BrushBuster]

When my father passed away, he left his favorite hunting rifle to me; a BRNO ZKK-600 in 7x57 calibre. Having a full compliment of rifles myself, I simply stored it away. Now his grandson has taken a real shine to it, and I regret that I don't have any practical knowledge to pass on. I know it's a fine flat-shooting calibre but little else?

I was wondering if those of you out there that have taken this calibre seriously, would consider sharing your knowledge of the rifles capabilities as a hunting firearm. Perhaps a few pet loads? I'd like to print your responses out for him, giving something of a "first-hand experience" perspective to his newly acquired shooter.

[zeek]

I have a Winchester mod.70 fwt. in 7x57 and love it. You can load it to doo almost anything you want from varmints on up but I would want something bigger for the dangerous and really big stuff. There is a wide varity of .284 bullets available. It is accurate with only moderate recoil.
 Get a spiral bound book called Load Book; it has load info on all bullets and powder manufactures. A 140gr.@ 2800 0r  a 150gr.@2700 work really well. My loads are a "little" over that. If you decide you don't like it, I'll give it a good home.

[ButlerFord45]

Excellent cartridge that has taken everything from Elephant to Kangaroo mouse.  Practicle use range would be coyote to elk, give or take a critter or two.  You missed out on a wonderful cartridge!  Heavy side of light recoil to the light side of moderate recoil.  Decent bullet choices, best I remember, it shines with 140gr range bullets.  My dream rifle has always been a Ruger No. 1 in 7mm Mauser.  

My suggestion would be to take it out and learn together.

[MickinColo]

The 7mm Mauser  (7X57, 275 Rigby) has killed more game over more continents for more years than any other round in the world. It has been used to kill 1000’s of elephants all the way down to a few pesky field mice.

[TNrifleman]

I love the 7X57. I have one in a Winchester Model 70 Featherweight. It is a great whitetail deer cartridge. I load my own ammunition for it and have come to prefer Nosler 140 grain Partitions.
 
Several deer have been convinced to spend the winter in my freezer by this rifle / caliber combination. Nosler has great loading data and information about the 7X57 in their #5 Manual.

Properly used, the little Mauser round will serve him well and it is a joy to shoot, unlike many "boomers" some guys think are necessary today.

[MickinColo]

P S

The 7mm Mauser also wounded 1000’s of elephants and other African megafauna too, it has it’s limitations.

[Gregory]

Here's some load data
http://www.accuratepowder.com/loaddata_caliber_rifle_standard_284cal.htm
 
I've been contemplating a rifle in 7x57 myself lately.  It's probably all the gun I'll ever need.  Been reading an old Jack O'Conner book and according to him it's good for game up to elk and moose.

[BrushBuster]

Thanks for all the replies so far:

My son is probably going to be a one calibre has to do it all kind of a guy, and will be calling upon the 7x57 to take both Mule deer and moose. From what I'm getting so far, this is a splendid deer cartridge with lots of bullet choices available. Now, what about the biggest deer?

I see there are 175 and 195 grain bullets available and that is what I would be inclined to load him up with. My 30-06 experience tells me that a good 175 grain bullet should be just fine if obtaining velocity levels beyond 2200 fps.  I am also reading that the pressure ratings for the 7x57 are generally quite conservative because of the number of older rifles out there.

Would I be correct in thinking that I can expect to use the maximum load figures with his Czech-made BRNO? A large moose would be taking the 7x57 to its upper limit, so I would like to set him up with a capable round.
Any thoughts on this, and are there any manufacturer preferences for the larger bullets, especially regarding performance on larger game?

[Dave in WV]

I've always read high praise for the strength of the Brno 600 action. A Nosler partition or Barnes tripple shock bullet would probably work fine on moose.

[Vern Humphrey]

My advice would be to start working with this cartridge -- develop a wide spectrum of loads.  Say, a 100 to 120 grain bullet at around 3,000 fps for varmits, a 140 grain bullet at about 2800 fps for deer and antelope, and 175 grain load at about 2400 for elk and moose.

When you have accurate loads in those three weights, you can take on about anything on  this continent.  For the heavy bullet loads, I'd go with premium bullets (say, the Nosler Partition Jacket) for actual hunting -- I have loads (in other calibers) where I worked up to the right weight, then dropped back a grain or two and loaded the more expensive Nosler for serious work.

[glock29]

Published loading data and factory loads for the 7x57 are extremely mild due to the fact that this cartridge is very old (older than the 30/30 win), and thusly must be mild in order not to blow-up the old firearms out there.
This is similar to the situation with the 45/70.
This cartridge will hold quite a bit more powder than the 7mm/08 but in factory form it is 200fps slower than the 7/08.
If you have a modern (Rem 700, Win 70, CZ550, Ruger 77 or #1, etc) rifle, this cartridge can be pushed a good deal hotter than factory safely.
It will actually nip at the heels of the 280 Remington performance wise, at least in my rifle.
I will not publish my data however, due to the fact that it most certainly would blow up an old Mauser in this caliber.
If you are willing to work up a load in 7x57 on your own (hotter than max in the loading manuals), this can be a supreme deer cartridge with bullets in the 140 to 154 grain weight.
With 175's it is marginally capable of taking Elk and Moose, but I would however choose something heavier for those. With the 175's the range of the 7x57 is extremely limited due to the relatively low (2400fps) velocity...it is not what you would call 'flat' shooting at all. Just because an animal can be taken with a particular cartridge (deer have been and can be killed with a 22 rimfire) does not mean one SHOULD use it. It is my belief that one should ALWAYS error on the side of caution (overkill) not under it.
If one had to pick a single rifle to cover deer/elk/and moose the 7x57 would NOT be my choice. I would choose something along the lines of a 300 Winchester Mag, 300 Weatherby Mag, 338 Rem Ultra Mag, or 340 Weatherby. These cartridges will most certainly dispatch Elk/Moose much more quickly/humanely. The recoil with the 340/338ultra can be quite high, but these make supreme Elk/Moose rifles. They are a bit overkill for deer, but I have yet seen a deer get up and complain that you overgunned him !
If you can handle the recoil, go with a bigger cartridge.

[BrushBuster]

Well this thread seems to have come to and end, so I'll summarize my thoughts and the direction taken.

I agree with glock29 that one should tend toward overkill on hunting all levels of game animals, however, in this case that's not practical. The current economy and gun ownership regulations north of the border are prohibitive in respect to owning numerous rifles. Beside's that, this was grandpa's gun and we'd like to keep it active.

In addition to the advice given here, I was able to track down a loading manual that provides specific load build-up data for the ZKK-600 rifle and the 7x57 cartridge. Indications are that I should be able to build-up to a velocity of 24-2500 fps. with a 175 grain Nosler Partition bullet (my choice).

Combined with a determination to place shots accurately, I feel confident that we will have a cartridge that will get the job done with due respect to the animal killed.  Thanks for the help, and I hope to report success in future.

[Leftoverdj]

I'm late to the party, but I'd strongly suggest 160 spitzers for the heavy stuff. In fact, I don't see nothing wrong with using the 154s on everything.

We run a little short on elk and moose in Virginia, but after seeing a 154 over a stiff charge of H 414 bust up the pelvic girdle and 12" of spine on a medium whitetail, I ain't worried about pentration none.

[kombi1976]

You need have no reservations about the 7x57 and its capabilities to knock down big game.
The ZKK-600 is a European rifle designed to withstand the pressure that European factory loads dish out.
Basically, companies like Norma and Sako load 7mm Mauser to the hilt and often with big 175gn bullets.
139gn bullets are an excellent choice for most shooting with the 7x57 but it'll push a 175gn bullet along between 2400fps & 2500fps.
Glock29 is correct in that it isn't an ideal round for moose or elk but get in nice and close and place your bullet and it'll deliver well.
I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned the mystical 2400-2700fps zone but it seems to really work.
The best thing about the 7x57 is the relatively mild recoil which allows you to place you shots well.
And to quote Mr O'Connor "It's a vicious killer".
Have a look at this page on reloadersnest.com for some load suggestions:

http://www.reloadersnest.com/frontpage.asp?CaliberID=45

Post some pics of your successes, eh?

[jh45gun]

Glock 29 the Swedes have killed more moose with the 6.5x55 than you can count. The Eskimo's and Canadians have killed Moose and big bears with 30/30's and 303's also. I think folks in this country get too darn magnum crazed. It all depends on where you place the bullet. The 7x57 has a good BC as does the 6.5 swede. Jim

[glock29]

I don't question the ability of the 7x57 to kill elk/moose, I question whether or not it is the proper cartridge for the job at hand.
The 22 long-rifle has been used for YEARS by poachers to brain-shoot deer & it works; that does not mean it is a legitimate DEER cartridge either.
To me, there is NO excuse for using an inadequate, barely adequate, or even less than optimum caliber for taking game.
Magnum-Mania rocks !
I, as well as I'd bet all others that read this, have yet to see any game get up and complain because you 'overgunned' him.
When in doubt, GO LARGE !

[MickinColo]

glock29,

I get the feeling from your post that anything less then a 50 BMG (My exaggeration of your statement) may be undersized for most big game in the USA.

I’m sorry but the 7 X 57 is more then adequate for anything that walks or crawls in the lower 48. In the hands of a shooter (real shooters know their limitations), will work just fine in Canada and Alaska.

The 7mm Mauser, 270 Win, 30-06 with a 150 grain bullet are all in the same class.

[earschplitinloudenboomer]

I am an absolute 7X57 nut, I own two and love 'em, they work really good on white tail. I am using 150 gr. Sierra spitzer boat tails, couldn't be happier...but...I, in my formative years, read those stories of Karamojo Bell and his exploits. I read of the tremendous numbers of animals taken with this diminutive caliber...magic was in the air...then some years later I read some serious articles on how this magic was performed...it wasn't magic!!!...it was Bell's in depth study of anatomy (bullet placement), Bell's use of step ladders or any means available to effect the proper angle of trajectry to achieve this bullet placement, the, at that time, almost limitless bounty of game, including elephants, and yes their was also a trail of bleeding, suffering, wounded animals when Bell @#$@! up. (Not to mention a few bleeding, suffering, wounded beater/bearers, who were considered as expendable, like provisions). Not really meant to demean Bell, he was what he was, he did what he did, but unbiased scrutiny of my favorite caliber indicates to me that mystique will not prevail over momentum, retained energy, terminal ballistics and, of course, bullet placement.

[kombi1976]

Absolutely!!
Bell also used the less powerful but excellent 6.5x54 for elephants before he switched to .275 Rigby(7x57) and with both rounds it is said he used a multiple shot chase method i.e. he'd disable the elephant with the first shot and then follow the ailing animal firing subsequent shots into it until it eventually died of blood loss, shock or an effective killing shot.
Not exactly humane although effective.

[BrushBuster]

All very worthwhile responses to this thread. I think we're saying much the same thing (including glock29). Though I have little experience with the 7x57 I'm convinced after researching it, that this is one of the premium deer-sized game cartridges available.

My search for a load that will "handle" a moose has narrowed down to a heavier bullet (175 grain) of tough construction (Nosler Partition) driven at an ample but not too amplified velocity (around 2500 fps.). I've moved away from trying to gain too much speed with this combination because of reports that this can be detrimental to bullet performance. I also want cases to last through multiple firings and primers to stay snug.

It seems that one of the main joys in shooting this calibre is its mild recoil and precision placement capabilities. I don't think trying to make it something that it isn't would be wise. Methinks it would be better to accept the cartridges limitations and get close before drawing a bead on a bull moose, then plunk that bullet where it will do the most good; if you can't do that, then there's always another day.

I'll be working up with ReLoder-19 initially because I have it on hand, and it seems like it will bring me close to 100% load density. Bullets on order, will keep you posted.

[7x57mm]

Over the years I have owned three 7x57mm rifles. The first was a tang safety Ruger Model 77 that was stolen, the second was a Ruger Mark II and my present is a CZ 550 American. My CZ, and I thing your rifle has the same barrel twist, is a twist of 1x8.66. That is the Euro-twist meant for the heavier bullets. I use H414 powder in my Remington cases with the 160 grain Nosler Partition, and the 162 grain Hornady SSTs. With 48.3 grains of H414 my rifle, which has a huge freebore, gets 2,815 fps with the Nosler. I am certain your 600 has a big freebore too. I shoot the rifle a bunch, and I know it well because I do shoot is so much. I feel very comfortable with the rifle for elk, mule deer, black bear, whitetail deer, javelina, antelope, wild hogs, coyotes and even turkey in states which allow centerfire on this game (Texas). That 600 is a good, strong action. Just make sure your son shoots the rifle a lot and not half a box of ammunition a few days before season. With my handloads I have gotten sub half minute of angle three-shot groups off a sandbag rest with the CZ and the little 7. Even at 2,765 fps and the 160 gr partition the rifle and caliber should be plenty for moose. It works just fine for elk, at least in my limited experience it does.  It is a fantastic caliber and you seem to have a darn fine rifle to shoot as well. 7x57mm (Tom Purdom)

[while99]

I bought a Ruger 77 in 7x57 in 1977 and used it for about a year.  I remember thinking that if I were going to carry around an 06-sized action, I might as well have it chambered for an 06-sized cartridge.  So I shipped the rifle down to Howard Wolfe, the builder of the 1,000 yard bench rest rifles, and asked him to re-chamber the rifle to .280 Remington.  I've been a .280 fan ever since.  At that time Ruger didn't chamber for the .280 but they added the caliber about a year or so later.

[earschplitinloudenboomer]

while99;
  I like the 7X57 so much but I too have had stirrings of unfaithfulness! I have read quite extensively on the .280, everything I read is good. If I buy another rifle, I think it will be a .280.

[Don Fischer]

My all time favorite hunting rifle was a 7x57. I found that the best bullet for MY rifle, early 70's Ruger 77, was Hornady's 154 gr round nose. As for the cartridge itself, there was no magic, perhaps some romance tho. The secret was that I was using a rifle that handled extremely well for me and that I used a great deal. That rifle was to me a thing of beauty and function. It was topped with a 4x Redfield widefield scope and I never shot anything over about 150 or so yds. Back then I considered it ole death and destruction but in truth, the RIFLE was an extension of me.

The 7x57 is as fine as it get's and at reasonable ranges, say 200 yds, will do anything any other 7mm will do, yes even the magnums! It may do even more as with the reduced recoil, it's easier to shoot well. The more age catches up with me, the more I realize that a great deal of any cartridge's ability lies within the user, maybe 90%!!! That is why we hear some great claim's for cartridge's such as the 243 on elk.

We all have personnel preference's in cartridge's, myself included. But at the end of the day, the fact is that we are blessed with a tremendous selection of cartridge's to fill each animal we may hunt.

[MickinColo]

Will said Don. The 7mm Mauser is an old cartridge. It doesn’t generate much excitement in today’s gun magazines. Shooting editors are not going to give it any real press.

Back in its day, the 7 Mauser was the “talk of the town”. Today (100 years later), there’s more exciting rounds available. It’s natural to talk down the old ideas and replace them with new ones. It doesn’t matter if the new ideas are truly better, it’s the fact that they are just new in a lot of cases.

[jh45gun]

Will said Don. The 7mm Mauser is an old cartridge. It doesn’t generate much excitement in today’s gun magazines. Shooting editors are not going to give it any real press.

Back in its day, the 7 Mauser was the “talk of the town”. Today (100 years later), there’s more exciting rounds available. It’s natural to talk down the old ideas and replace them with new ones. It doesn’t matter if the new ideas are truly better, it’s the fact that they are just new in a lot of cases.

Good point now all you hear is short magnums in the gun rags I used to buy several a month now I get the NRA American Rifleman since I am a NRA member and if I see a mag that gets my attention I may buy it but that is few and far inbetween. Jim