Author Topic: Idaho: Don't Mess With This Guy!  (Read 1227 times)

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Offline BamBams

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Idaho: Don't Mess With This Guy!
« on: February 05, 2005, 04:14:11 PM »
Idaho Outlaw to Be Freed From Jail
Saturday, February 05, 2005
 
OWYHEE COUNTY, Idaho — Idaho's most infamous outlaw, Claude Dallas, killed two state officers in a remote desert 24 years ago in a crime that brought him notoriety as both a callous criminal and a modern-day mountain man at odds with the government.

Now a bespectacled 54-year-old, Dallas is to be released from prison Sunday after serving nearly 22 years for the execution-style slayings of Conley Elms and Bill Pogue, officers for the Idaho Department of Fish and Game.

The case has been among the most polarizing in Idaho history, with some expressing disgust at how Dallas has gained a measure of folk-hero status among those who rally against the establishment.

Some compared him to Gordon Kahl (search), a tax-evader killed by U.S. marshals in Arkansas in 1983; to Randy Weaver, the protagonist in the 1992 Ruby Ridge standoff; or even to Timothy McVeigh, the Oklahoma City bomber.

"Those cases always end up getting connected after the fact," said Jess Walter, the Spokane, Wash.-based author of a book about Weaver. "But at the time, they were just having trouble with law enforcement."

Dallas' 1986 jailbreak only heightened the legend perpetuated by his friends, that his rugged lifestyle got crossways with a heavy-handed U.S. government. Dallas hid for nearly a year before he was caught and sent back to prison. He was charged in the escape, but acquitted by a jury after he testified he had to break out because the prison guards threatened his life.


"It's sure an emotional issue, and his release has heightened those emotions," said Jon Heggen, head of the Fish and Game Department's enforcement bureau. "There's been a lot of tears shed the last two weeks."

Dallas' 30-year sentence was cut by eight years for good behavior.

He was convicted of manslaughter in 1982 for shooting the officers, who had entered his winter camp on the South Fork of the Owyhee River, one of the West's least-populated regions, to investigate reports of illegal trapping.

Jim Stevens, a friend of Dallas who was visiting the camp, witnessed the killings.

According to evidence at the trial, Pogue, who had drawn his own weapon, was hit first with a shot from Dallas' handgun. Dallas then shot Elms two times in the chest as the warden emerged from the trapper's tent, where he'd found poached bobcats.

Dallas then used a rifle to fire one round into each man's head.

The 28-day trial made national headlines, with Dallas claiming the game wardens were out to get him. A group of women — who became known as the "Dallas Cheerleaders" — gathered daily to support him.

A jury of 10 women and two men acquitted Dallas of murder, finding him guilty of the lesser charge of voluntary manslaughter instead.

"We remain horrified somebody could have gotten manslaughter for cruelly killing our people, and then following it up with shots from a .22 rifle," said former Fish and Game Director Jerry Conley, who testified at Dallas' sentencing.

But one of Dallas' lawyers, Bill Mauk, still sees Dallas as a victim: He fired on the officers after his privacy had been violated and after he was threatened by government agents enforcing game laws he didn't believe applied to him.

Jury foreman Milo M. Moore, a retired shopkeeper, said Dallas might have been freed outright if he hadn't used his .22 caliber rifle. Moore said testimony about Pogue's reputation as a tough-guy lawman influenced the verdict.

"We felt it was self-defense up to a certain point," Moore said in a recent interview. "Had he not shot them in the head, it would have been a different verdict."

Moore said Pogue had come "gunning" for the poacher, and said Pogue was on trial in some jurors' minds more than Dallas.

Dallas' story inspired a television movie, and writer Jack Olsen chronicled the crime in a book called "Give a Boy a Gun."

"Claude Dallas," a ballad written by singer-songwriters Ian Tyson and Tom Russell, and sung by Tyson, romanticizes Dallas' lifestyle and life on the lam, saying: "It took 18 men and 15 months to finally run Claude down. In the sage outside of paradise, they drove him to the ground."

Kevin Kempf, the warden at the Idaho Correctional Institution at Orofino, where Dallas has been since Jan. 15 when he was moved from a Kansas prison, won't say where Dallas will be released.

"He's prepared," Kempf said. "It doesn't appear he's going to be leaving our facility without any direction or without a plan."

Dallas did not respond to interview requests from The Associated Press.
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Offline powderman

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Idaho: Don't Mess With This Guy!
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2005, 04:39:00 PM »
He murdered 2 officers in the performance of their duty. Poached animals, plenty of evidence. He should have been executed. POWDERMAN.  :x  :x  :x  :x
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Offline Shorty

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« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2005, 11:05:17 AM »
I remember that TV movie.  It made the game warden look like a real gung-ho hard-a$$, but it also showed that  Dallas could have just gone along without resorting to violence.

Offline FWiedner

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« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2005, 11:21:23 AM »
It's no crime for a man to defend himself.

The coup-de-grace was, however, over the line.  

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Offline MSP Ret

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« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2005, 11:23:23 AM »
A great arguement for capital punishment. And where in the heck did they get that jury? Most likely all left wing, bleeding heart liberals....<><.... :x
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Offline Leftoverdj

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« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2005, 01:19:58 PM »
Quote from: MSP Ret
A great arguement for capital punishment. And where in the heck did they get that jury? Most likely all left wing, bleeding heart liberals....<><.... :x


I don't think they have many liberals in Idaho. They do, however, have a lot of rugged individualists with too much experience with abusive overbearing cops.
It is the duty of the good citizen to love his country and hate his gubmint.

Offline Graybeard

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« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2005, 04:07:11 PM »
Quote
He should have been executed.


I have no clue what the real truth in the matter was. BUT I'm betting if he gets out and goes back the above is what will happen to him when he next meets up with any kinda cops or game wardens. Those guys have a way of dealing with folks who kill one of their own.


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Offline opus

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« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2005, 04:34:41 PM »
Reading what I have read in the past year on the subject, plus talking to some people about it, sounds to me like he wasnt the bad guy in the whole thing.

Then again, believe 25% of what you hear, 50% of what you read, and 75% of what you see.

Offline brown-trout

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20th century 'mountain man'....righhht....
« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2005, 11:20:26 AM »
Ok...I have followed Mr Dallas' exploits since they were current events.
He is nothing short of a criminal who felt he had no reason to obey the laws.
Us 'conservatives' cry and moan when people ,and I use it in it broadest sense, riot, destroy neighborhoods and evade the cops and smack into a minivan full of kids..........but when its one of our 'own'......"well them coppers was over the line...they didnt have no right to search him".
If you are poaching deer , and a credible person witnesses it and they call the law...thats Probable Cause.....and the Constitution allows for searches that are not unreasonable.  He broke the law and decided to murder two men.  Had he complied, he wouldnt have done any time for what he did and he would have had  the last twenty years to do as he pleased , as opposed to learning that showers  can be a BAD , BAD place.

Now as far as Mr. Dallas being a 'mountain man'.....while a wiley trapper and experienced outdoorsman, he was no mountain man.
Just my 2 cents.
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Offline Ron T.

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Idaho: Don't Mess With This Guy!
« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2005, 03:54:45 PM »
Seems very clear to me that Dallas is/was a POACHER, I.E., a LAW-BREAKER... and as such, he has NO DEFENSE or JUSTIFICATION for his murderous acts.

As Americans, we tend to cheer for the "under-dog"... but Dallas is no "under-dog", he's a cold-blooded killer of lawmen who were hired and paid to uphold our game laws.

'Nuff said...


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Offline BamBams

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Idaho: Don't Mess With This Guy!
« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2005, 06:13:07 PM »
It's easy to draw quick conclusions from a news article, but evidently, a jury of 12 didn't quite see him the way some of us do.  I'd love to read the transcripts of his trial.   Of course, I'm a guy who wishes Weaver had won the gun fight, but then again, I was also raised in a family of poachers - but never agreed with it.  Heck....I'm not qualified to post an opinion am I?
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Offline williamlayton

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Idaho: Don't Mess With This Guy!
« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2005, 11:31:01 PM »
Bams-
Qualifications mean nothing when it comes to opinions, now, you are a pretty qualified person bout sum things and think along some reasonable lines, but you doan have to have any of them qualifications to have an opinion. It does help if you want your opinion to be a good one though.
Folks you have need to put off some of the shackles of the 20 or 21st century to see this situation. This situation and the mentality involved goes back to the 19th century.
These are folks that do not want to move on. Now you can deride em if you want but these people are locked in a struggle that defies modern logic and thought process. In the 19th century this trial would have turned out bout like it turned out this time.
Now Graybeard is bout right. This thing is not going to end til, well, ya know---but what must be understood, well you do not have to understand anything, but if you have a need to see things as they are in this area your mindset HAS NEED to change.
This is not about modern thought, modern mores, modern culture it is about a time long past that these folks refuse to let die with them. This peace officer or game warden was well aware of this and was, from my understanding, part of this culture. He knew and acted as part of that/this culture. The results of this were/are not as shocking to these folk as it is to us. Part of life to them.
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Offline Mac11700

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« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2005, 06:00:08 AM »
I haven't heard much about this since it all happened all those years ago...and to many here...hearing about a LEO getting shot isn't taken lightly...but...I do know in certain parts of this country...whenever you have a few lawmen who deciede to make or break laws...the public is the ones who lose...as with this case...since noone here has come forth and posted that they were in fact part of the jury that DIDN"T convict him of 1st degree muder...we really don't know what exactly was going on up there...and if you don't have all the facts...you really can't make any type of judgement on the man...he was tried in a courtroom of HIS peers...people from the area...these people heard and saw what evidence was presented...how is anyone here" qualified" to say that man deserved the death penalty?...Do those that do...actually believe because they are wearing a badge that they automaticly become innocent?...If this were the case...then explain Ruby Ridge to me...I'm not saying I agree with what he did...but I wasn't there...and I don't know the whole story either...

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Offline wink_man

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Idaho: Don't Mess With This Guy!
« Reply #13 on: February 14, 2005, 01:39:32 AM »
I too, wish Randy Weaver had won that gunfight, but that is a whole other issue, involving entrapment on the part of the BATF. Claude Dalles was a poacher, and a law breaker. If the rest of us are required to abide by game laws, why wasn't he? The arguement that Pogue was a hard nosed conservation officer doesn't hold any weight with me, aren't we SUPPOSED to do our job well, to the best of our ability??? I think that Dalles was a hard core murderer, with no respect  for anyone. There is a little known fact, that found in his tent, was a book he apparently read and believed in, and that book referred to handguns, and was entitled 'Be First or be DEAD' That alone should tell you something. He should have gotten the death penalty as far as I'm concerned.
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Offline .270

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Idaho: Don't Mess With This Guy!
« Reply #14 on: February 14, 2005, 05:22:48 AM »
Two sides to everey story and the truth lies somewhere in the middle just my :money: worth

Offline Quigley_Sharps

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Idaho: Don't Mess With This Guy!
« Reply #15 on: February 26, 2005, 08:04:32 AM »
The local Game officer there was known for being strong handed and a show boat/ gun wanna be gun slinger.
But what happened there will never be known for 100%.
Unfortunately, this happened at a time and a place where the federal government had made themselves a bad name in how they treated people.
Idaho has had the day lights rode out of them from the Government years ago that is how its remembered by everyone around here.
If it were Alaska, Claude wouldnÂ’t have had the game boys there, because living in the woods and living off of the land and the sustenance provisions would allow him to take game without a season or a license.
In Oregon if you own a Mine with papers you are allowed to take game on that land if that is how you make your living.
I think there should be nothing stopping someone from living in the wild, off of the land (without permit). But only if that is your way of life.
I to donÂ’t condone the shooting of Police officers,
But all people arenÂ’t saints including ones in uniform, From time to time we will have to use our minds and hearts to seek out the truth in court and find the true character of ones on trial and ones putting them there.

Offline Jack Gilbert

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Claude Dallas
« Reply #16 on: March 05, 2005, 05:12:25 AM »
My cousin's husband was Fish and Game director at the time of the Claude Dallas incident. Those supporting him were called "The Dallas Cheerleaders."

I just hope he has left Idaho and never comes back.

Jack Gilbert

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Offline dawei

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« Reply #17 on: March 05, 2005, 07:39:08 AM »
Quote from: Quigley_Sharps
The local Game officer there was known for being strong handed and a show boat/ gun wanna be gun slinger.
But what happened there will never be known for 100%.
Unfortunately, this happened at a time and a place where the federal government had made themselves a bad name in how they treated people.
Idaho has had the day lights rode out of them from the Government years ago that is how its remembered by everyone around here.
If it were Alaska, Claude wouldnÂ’t have had the game boys there, because living in the woods and living off of the land and the sustenance provisions would allow him to take game without a season or a license.
In Oregon if you own a Mine with papers you are allowed to take game on that land if that is how you make your living.
I think there should be nothing stopping someone from living in the wild, off of the land (without permit). But only if that is your way of life.
I to donÂ’t condone the shooting of Police officers,
But all people arenÂ’t saints including ones in uniform, From time to time we will have to use our minds and hearts to seek out the truth in court and find the true character of ones on trial and ones putting them there.


As one who is in uniform & carries a gun & badge for a living I have to agree with you. Those of us that think we are better than others because we are cops are the worst. They are quickly shunned by their fellow officers.

I deal with what society calls the "Lower Strata" every night. Folks on drugs, alcoholics, transcients/homeless & the like. What I keep in the back of my mind is: "There but for the grace of God go I. Bad S@#T HAPPENS TO GOOD PEOPLE."  It all has to do with people's coping skills & support network.

I'm no "BLEEDING HEART LIBERAL"; what Dallas did was horrible. Having said that however; my gut tells me he has served his time & probably just wants to be left alone. Only time will tell.