223 New Idea.

[Donaldo]

Well this may or may not be a new idea but I been thinking on this a while so I am going to put it out to the group for feedback.  We all know that on the 223, it has a long throat, or I guess you could say lead in area.  Anyway that area from the end of the chamber cut for the neck to where the lands and grooves start.  My thought is to use 222 Mag cases, run then thru a 223 sizing die to get a little longer neck.  In my opinion the neck on the 223 is too short.  I would like the neck to be about as long as the neck on the 222.  Of course the neck part of the chamber would have to be cut a bit deeper but that is not a big problem.  Might could be done by hand with the proper reamer.  This would accomplish two things.  Get the bullet closer to the lands and give a longer neck to the 223 case.  Course 222 mag cases are harder to find that 223, but it might be worth it.  I guess it could be called the 223 LN.  (Long Neck)  It works for beer bottles.   :-) Whatta ya think.

[Fred M]

Simply run in a 222Mag reamer, and use 222Mag brass. This will do what you have in mind. Later you can rebore to 6mm with the chamber as is and turn it into a 6x47. All that is required, expand the neck. The new chamber will be nearly the same as the 222Mag except the shoulder angle with the body getting a slight improvement to clean up the 222Mag chamber.

At present I don't have any chamber drw. available but I think this will shorten the throat a small amount. Don't know if that is worthwhile. I nay event you should make a proper chamber cast to see what you have.

Fred M.

[marv]

Donald o I think ( there I go thinking again ) The best Idea is
 get 222mag reamer, do it by hand, About a 15 to 20 minute job.
 about the same reaming 357 Mag to 357 Maxie. I agree with you,
the 223 is too short of neck, Just Mho. Good Luck Marv.

[mt3030]

Donaldo:
I like your original idea. This would leave a real 223 chamber (with just a long neck), in which a factory 223 could be fired. We all know the danger if a 223 round is fired in a 222 Mag chamber. mt

[Mac11700]

My question is simply...why??? If your not looking to improve the 223's accuracy or velocity...why worry about seating the bullets out to the lands...most of the 223's are getting more than acceptable accuracy with the small amount of freebore they come with...and I'm afraid you will find the cost of doing this isn't going to give you the returns you were looking for. Fred is correct into turning the 223 chamber over into the 6X47...but unless you do what he did with his 25-06 and bed the action in the receiver and everthing else...I don't think the gains equal the total expense of trying to get it there...the one thing you won't ever do with these little rifles is to turn them into true BenchRest rifles...the strenght of the action and the  lock up on them just isn't good enough to do that...I'm not saying it isn't fun to try...but...

Mac

[Donaldo]

Hey Fred, Welcome back.  We missed you.  
MT3030 seems to be the only one who got my idea.  It was not to increase the powder capacity of the 223.  It was only to get a longer neck on a 223 case.  And a more accurate cartridge.  I just think with a longer neck it could be a more accurate cartridge.  In general, a 222 will out shoot a 223 any day of the week, all other things being equal.  Part of this reason is the case neck length.  The 222 has a neck that is 1.5 bullet diameters long.  The 22PPC has a case neck length that is 1.28 bullet diameters long.  The 222 mag has a case neck length that is 1.18 bullet diameters long.  The 223 has a case neck length that is 0.9 bullet diameters long.  By running a 222 mag case thru a 223 FL die it would bump the shoulder back by about 0.0289".  Not much granted, but it would then give a case neck length of 0.2927 which is 1.3 bullet diameters long.  The 223 is my favorite to shoot, I just wish it had a longer neck.  By running a 222 mag reamer into a 223 chamber not only lengthens the neck but the overall case length too.  Course you could always stop the mag reamer short of moving the shoulder forward but it would not give you the maximum neck length you could get by just making the standard 223 chamber with the longer neck.  You could still shoot standard 223 cartridges if you wanted to.  Kind of like shooting 22 longs in a 22 long rifle chamber.  Course you wouldn't want to do this on a regular basis but you could just the same.  Accuracy might suffer a bit too.  I think it is generally understood that a longer case neck tends to make for a more accurate cartridge.  I have made chamber casts of both my 223 Handi and my 223 Savage barrels.  The lead or throat on the Handi is about twice as long as the one on the Savage.  By making the neck longer it would eliminate some of this long throat and consequently long jump to the lands.  Who knows, maybe you can make a silk purse out of a sows ear.  I can't see where it would be very costly to just make the standard 223 throat longer.  Anyway it is something to think and plan about when you can't get to the range or your waiting on parts to arrive for a favorite project.   :?

[quickdtoo]

I may be all wet here, but I'll throw the idea out just in case it might work. If the 5.56 Nato brass is heavier in construction, what about using it and never trimming the brass, eventually you would have a bit longer neck as long as the chamber would would allow it.??

[Donaldo]

Quick,
I recently took a LC military case and a case from the Win econo box stuff and cut them length wise.  In this particular case, the LC brass was lighter and thinner and weighed less than the WW case.  I was under the assumption that all Mil spec brass was heavier.  But not in this one instance.  I don't think a case would grow that much in length by just not trimming.  This longer neck thing is just another hairbrained idea of mine.  Just something to think about, but I think it would work anyway.

[mt3030]

I still like the idea. We all have to deal with long throats in Handi's anyway, why not use your idea to clean it up without losing the ability to shoot the 223 caliber. I've had two Handi's in 223 where I could not reach the riflings with a 55 grain bullet, let alone my favorite 50 gr Nosler Bal-Tip. This is a great hobby, where we don't have to justify our whims. (Well, maybe to the wife it gets expensive!) mt

[Mac11700]

I still like the idea. We all have to deal with long throats in Handi's anyway, why not use your idea to clean it up without losing the ability to shoot the 223 caliber. I've had two Handi's in 223 where I could not reach the riflings with a 55 grain bullet, let alone my favorite 50 gr Nosler Bal-Tip. This is a great hobby, where we don't have to justify our whims. (Well, maybe to the wife it gets expensive!) mt

 
In a strong bolt action rifle...loading out to just off the lands usually does produce better groups...but...in a Handi...I think you'll find it won't matter a great deal...the action does flex...by it's very nature it has flex...and doing more to insure a solid lock up on both horizontal/vertical plains will do more  for accuracy than just seating the bullets out further.. Fred found this out with his 25-06...granted...it isn't a 223...but the same principle applies
 
I've tried this with a few Handi rifles...I had a long throated 308 bull barrel...it would shoot 1/2 groups with  factory Match ammo...all day long... I did try a few different handloads to try to match that accuracy...mainly experimenting with the bullet seating dept on them...now...the 223 may be different in this regards...but...since my conversations with those at the factory on the reasons they have free bore in them...I really don't try that reloading method anymore...instead I look for a load...using the recommended OAL...I've had much better accuracy doing this way than trying to seat out close to the lands...

It's your money...and your time...and I hope you get it shooting where you want it...

Mac