Author Topic: Need education on displacement velocity  (Read 1970 times)

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Offline Shoot!

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Need education on displacement velocity
« on: February 02, 2005, 10:17:14 AM »
Mr. Smith,
 Can you please give me the lowdown on your displacement velocity theory? I'm curious what my target velocity range should be when loading up a 454 carbine with 325 WFNs with a 0.36" meplat, as well as the Lyman 452651 (335 gr w/ 0.3" nose).
Thank you.

Offline Veral

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Need education on displacement velocity
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2005, 06:36:49 PM »
First understand that it is NOT a theory.  I would have let you call it a concept 15 years ago, but it is now a fact, proven over and over by thousands, and no one who has tried it has questioned it's accuracy since I published it in 1990.

  The easy calculation is meplat diameter in thousandths of an inch X Velocity divided by 4.

  Ignore the range you'll expect to be shooting at.  Just calculate it off muzzle velocity and it will be close out to as far as most can hit with a revolver or rifles which thrive on 'Pumpkin ball' type bullets.

  Get the DV up to 80 minimum, for quick kills on deer and larger game,  best with 100 to 125.  Don't go over that very much or kill speed will go down.

  If using a small caliber gun which doesn't have the omph to get the 80 minimum desired DV, you'll get good clean kills at DV's down to 60 if the bullets are placed into good vital areas of the chest.  i.e. If they cut major blood vessels, heart, or the thicker parts of the lungs.  

Expect approximate wound diameters straight through the muscle and organ parts of game as follows:

60 to 70 DV    1/2 inch diameter
75 to 90  DV    3/4 inch +
100    DV          1 inch +
125     DV         1 1/4 inch +
If wound diameter goes up to 1 3/8 inch or greater kill speed drops off rapidly, which means game runs quite a way before expiring.  With a DV of 100 to 125, game up to elk moose and bison almost always fold in their tracks or take a few steps at most.
Veral Smith

Offline Shoot!

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Need education on displacement velocity
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2005, 03:26:55 AM »
Quote from: Veral

If wound diameter goes up to 1 3/8 inch or greater kill speed drops off rapidly, which means game runs quite a way before expiring.
This is the part I have the hardest time wrapping my brain around... It seems to me that a bigger hole = better... I'll need to either decrease my meplat diameter or really cut back on velocity. Which do you recommend I do?
Thanks for your reply!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
   I'm going to answer you here and leave the next message stand.  I prefer to reduce the velocity and enjoy shooting the thing!  You'll be amazed, trust me.  On the other hand, if you like to hear your ears ring for a week after killing a piece of game, get a smaller meplat bullet and load it to the wall!

  A niece of mine shot an average size buck through the heart with a 300 Weatherby magnum.  It ran as if it hadn't been hit, for well over 100 yards, with a three inch hole out the offside!  It would have toppled over in it's tracks with a 44 WFN loafing along at 1200 fps muzzle velocity!

Offline unclenick

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Need education on displacement velocity
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2005, 02:48:28 PM »
I can't answer for Mr. Smith, but I believe he was the first to put forward the observation that flat-nose solid bullets cutting a wound channel not much bigger than one inch give optimum killing effect in medium and larger game.  Also that jacketed expanding bullets often kill more slowly, even when fired from heavy magnums and making much bigger wounds tracks.  He certainly was the first to promote this concept actively, because if someone else noticed it first, they didn't do much to spread the word.  Just look at pre-LBT mold catalogs and cast bullet designs.

Mr. Smith's observation seems counterintuitive until you know two things are true:    The first is that a flat-nose solid cast bullet is more likely than other designs to completely penetrate the game and leave good bleed-out holes on both sides.
 
The second is a biological curiosity:  Nature has figured out survival chances are enhanced if small cuts and wounds bleed freely enough to wash out most of the germs.  But for large wounds free bleeding causes blood loss to be more life-threatening than sepsis.  For this reason the body tries to distinguish between the two extremes, and when a wound is clearly large, releases hormones that shut down the capillaries and stem bleeding.  This is why someone may bleed to death from a .22 hole though the leg, but survives having the whole leg taken off above the knee in an accidental encounter with a Great White or other heavy equipment (though, necessarily, not in that order).    
 
Unfortunately for survival, but fortunately for hunters, nature is unable to draw a very fine line between the two wound sizes, leaving the optimum wound channel size available to exploit with hunting loads.  This is what Mr. Smith's various wide meplat bullet designs do.  If you need proof, visit the catalogs of his mold-making competitors today and count how many now have near copies of his designs.  15 years ago they didn't.  You won't get the same quality from them either, but I suppose any attempt at imitation is an indirect compliment.

Offline Veral

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« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2005, 08:08:20 PM »
The idea that full penetration gives a better blood trail from the offside is true,   IF THE ANIMAL RUNS.  But few do if DV is right.  They drop in their tracks.  Some walk a few steps, and I've seen a couple lope or trot not over 50 feet.

   I can't argue the above comments about blood clotting, but an MD customer told me years ago, when I told him how my bullets killed so quick and asked if he had a clue why.  'When the wound is too large, (shock or splash) blood cells and artery wall cells are ruptured, which releases high speed clotting agents instantly.)  So we concluded that with the instant drop in blood pressure caused with a proper wound the brain stalls and the animal cannot move.  That's what they look like if they move at all.  -- Hormones would have no time to travel to the wound site when the kill is normally well under one second, I don't believe.
Veral Smith

Offline Shoot!

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Need education on displacement velocity
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2005, 07:24:56 AM »
Gentlemen,
Thank you for the clinical responses. I will keep my meplats in the neighborhood of 0.3" and velocities below 1800.

Offline unclenick

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Need education on displacement velocity
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2005, 02:08:03 PM »
Veral,

Good point about hormone speed (have to wait for secrections to travel), though I do recall reading they had some roll in wound survival - perhaps to do with handling shock afterward?  I'll have to check.  My memory isn't what it once was, and forgets to let me know when I'm not sure of something.  

I didn't realize the clotting agents were in the cells themselves?  It makes sense though, given the reaction speed necessary.  I'll have to look into that, too.  My curiosity is up.  

I also recall something about shock and temperature drop slowing blood loss.  This wouldn't be immediate either.  I believe the biofeedback folk teach people to increase and decrease blood flow to extremities by imagining them feeling hot or cold, respectively.  But I don't think a deer shot with one of your bullets has time to realize it's wounded, much less think about slowing blood loss.  Facinating business.  

Nick

Offline Longcruise

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Need education on displacement velocity
« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2005, 12:39:21 PM »
I know this forum isn't for lengthy discussion on these matters. but just to clarify, it is not hormones that cause clotting, but rather an element within the blood called a platelet.  The more violent is a disruption to tissue, the more rapidly the platelets respond.  That's why when you cut your self with a very sharp razor the bleeding is so hard to stop.  OTOH, a cut from a dull knife clots quickly.  It's also the reason why an animal hit with a razor sharp broadhead through the lungs loses most of it's blood and blood pressure in a matter of seconds.

Most of this I recall from high school biology if ya can believe it :)

It's also confirmed by my daughter who is an MD

Offline Veral

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Need education on displacement velocity
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2005, 07:07:07 PM »
Great info.  Thanks.  Veral
Veral Smith

Offline unclenick

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Need education on displacement velocity
« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2005, 04:59:37 PM »
Longcruise,

Thanks for the contribution.  I didn't remember that from high school, but since the last post I went in for an annual physical (I'm still alive, it turns out, despite my blood ignorance) and brought it up with the doctor who reminded me of the same things you did.  All I remember directly about blood from high school biology is a clear image of the little capillary tubes we drew it up into after pricking our fingers for a typing sample.

Nick