Author Topic: 1858 Pietta Handgun Evaluation - New In The Box (Read 2697 times)

David L · « **on:** October 02, 2003, 10:20:57 AM »

Gun in Question:
Pietta Firearms Evaluation: 1858 Pietta Remington , 8 inch Barrel, .44 Cal.

Products used with this gun:
I used #10 Remington percussion caps, they fit the nipples exactly. Balls was .457 Speer, with Wonder Wads and 20 grains of triple 7. Cream-of-Wheat used as filler, the balls were seated at the mouth of cylinder as close to the forcing cone as possible.

Gun Performance:
It was hitting 6-8 inches to the left and about 5 inches low. A gunsmith replaced the front sight for me, dove-tail cut, cost 50 bucks and change. DID not help the bullet placement at all, still to the extreme left. Cannot hit anything over 20 feet in front of me.

OK, I decided to give this one more shot. I consulted with my uncle, he is retired from the army after spending 30 years in service.

We do not get along that well but I had to have his opinion of this gun. He is an expert marksman and holds the medals and trophies to prove it. The last 10 years he has been unactive in firearms due to his health. I told him what it was doing and handed him the gun. After 10 minutes he told me to get another barrel OR redo both ends of this barrel, forcing cone and crown. I asked him why? He said the front of the barrel has no crown and the forcing cone was shaving lead on the right hand side. I asked him how he knew this and he showed me the inside of the forcing cone and said compaired to the measurements of the cylinder this cone was unacceptable and also said the crown was almost nonexistent. He also said the sights have nothing to do with this, the barrel needs work, dont screw with this barrel, get another one. He also said he would not screw with it, he would go with another manufacturer IF I liked it that much.

We just came from the river and tried to shoot it. I handed him the gun and it just clicked, no sound no nothing, just CLICK.The cylinder was not turning, we tore it down in the field and the hand-spring fell out. NOW it wont shoot periodMy rebuild kit was 15 miles away. My uncle could not go back out with me due to his health. He told me to use this for home defense with .45 LC and forget about using it for competation, he had a good laugh when I told him folks use this model for CAS. He did say it was a good design but the factory work was horrid. He just flat told me, Dave, this is one sorry gun, get rid of it. I asked him how much it was worth and he said less than 50 bucks..He pulled out a .45 long slide and proceded to show me what shooting was all about, I wont bore you with how GOOD he is but let me say this, that man can shoot!!!!!

STAY away from Pietta, one sorry gun man ---- At least mine was, Im sure there is one perhaps 2 good ones out there but, not in my houseI just got a lemon, I cannot vouch for Pietta Firearms because in my opinion it IS one sorry gun!! The gun I got was, dunno about ALL Pietta guns but I would steer clear of them..

David L

MY Pietta sucks, WILL not buy another!

howdy doody · « **Reply #1 on:** October 02, 2003, 12:09:11 PM »

How much do you want for it pard? PM me.

1860 · « **Reply #2 on:** October 02, 2003, 12:35:57 PM »

I'll be #2 behind Howdy D. -(congrats on the clean match BTW)....

Shame about your troubles. Remmies did not have crowns and I've never seen a repro that did either. Although the forcing cone could be too small, shaving lead usually indicates improper cylinder alignment. Outside chance of the bore being off center as well. If your smith can't cut a dovetail without marring the bbl. then I wouldn't let him touch it again. Not all Piettas are junk, my 1985 Vintage Pietta is still going strong, shoots better than me and I can't remember ever having to fix anything.

1860

J.W.Neely · « **Reply #3 on:** October 02, 2003, 01:38:11 PM »

Oh great, I just ordered two 1860 Army Piettas. :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
<--------( now I feel like my pic)

David L · « **Reply #4 on:** October 02, 2003, 02:00:18 PM »

Howdy Do

OK, SOLD, you will need to get 130, the cost of the gun and 51.00 plus 35 dollars. This includes the gun and an extra cylinder and the cost of the dove-tail sight. Ill mail it soon as I get your check. Price is FIRM! Non-negotiable.

130 Original cost of Gun
51 Dollars for dove-tail sight
35 Dollars for extrta cylinder
10 Bucks shipping
-------------------------------------
226.00

For 226.00 ITS YOURS plus you get an extra cylinder. IF you do not want the extra cylinder then deduct 35 from the above price. Ill ship it tomorrow, just let me know.

1860
NO crown, hey, that means I can take a hack saw to it and get the same results, sorry, but, I dont believe that, AT ALL..A pistol that does not require a crown..Ummmmmm I just dont believe that..Your gonna hafta show me that this is true or otherwise I just cant believe it. According to you a hacksaw blade will do just fine for cutting the barrel, yeah right.

The same deal goes to you. IF Howdy Do does not want it then it is yours. Send payment and Ill ship it.

Gun will be shipped with papers and original box.

David L

Chicken today and feathers tomorrow,,,,,,,,

David L · « **Reply #5 on:** October 02, 2003, 02:34:31 PM »

FFG:

I do not know what the quality of the guns are but I do know I got a lemon. YOU might have a winner in your guns. DO NOT Dispair my friend, you could have a pair of GOOD ones. That seems to be the deal here, some are good and some are not.

I believe most are of good qulity, I just got a lemon.....

David L.

howdy doody · « **Reply #6 on:** October 02, 2003, 04:10:33 PM »

I am sorry for your troubles with your 58 pard, but I will back off on that price, when I can get one for $159 from Cabelas who by the way would take it back in a heartbeat if I found anything wrong with it. It is well known that they have a refund policy on everything they sell including firearms. I have enough cylinders to shoot a 6 stage match.
I am sorry, but I am out. I won't even go into what I think might be wrong. You are convinced it is a lemon, but being as it was new you should have tried to get warranty or exchange before doing the sight work.
I am sure sorry for your troubles pard. At least it wasn't a big bucks pistol.

David L · « **Reply #7 on:** October 02, 2003, 04:20:58 PM »

Hiya Howday Do,

Yeah, I know its a bit on the high side of price but I really wanna keep it, I think I can make this thing shoot good, I REALLY like the grip and will prolly get another one inspite of the problems. I look forward to the day I can get my hand on a BP Pistole that can shoot HALF as good as my ole colt did......Dreams,,,,,.......

Hey guy, I really don't wanna sell it...But if someone comes along and pays the price then I'll just go and buy an Umberti.......*LOL****...AT least I'm honest........

God Bless you and yours Howdy Do.....

David L

howdy doody · « **Reply #8 on:** October 02, 2003, 05:28:29 PM »

Fair enough pard. Now you need to address the timing. About all of them need a bit of file work on the hand. That might have been what broke your spring too. Then don't worry about that little nothing forcing cone. Balls are round and don't need much forcing cone. Then switch to either a 451 or a 454 ball. The 457 is best for Rugers, because they have a bigger cylinder bore. Then I would forego the 777, which is or is not a powder developed for muzzleloading rifles and get some pyrodex select and load 30 gr of it in the chamber, go ahead and stick your wonder wad on top and ram the smaller ball down onto the powder. I suspect the big old fat 457 ball might not have actually gotten on top of your powder and you should still end up with the ball a lot lower than the cylinder mouth. Try that. If you have space between the ball and powder the accuracy is bound to be all over the place and you will find the 451 ball rams with ease. Try that pard and see if it helps at all.

David L · « **Reply #9 on:** October 02, 2003, 07:07:23 PM »

The file work on the hand caused it to fracture, I done an action job on this revolver about 75 balls ago, switching from .454 to .457 . The .454 would back out of the cylinder and would not allow it to turn. I had to take it out and reseat the balls, caps and all.I DID not like that AT all So I went to the larger balls which did not creep during recoil. The .454 balls will not fit my cylinder, I have tried it down to 15 grains of triple 7 and they still back out, that is not an option here. This gun should take 25 grains of triple 7 with NO problem, thats what Im using now. The .454 balls are to small, Ive tried it with and without filler----Without filler the accuracy is trash.

With 15 grains of 777 and .454 balls the accuracy was horrid. With this combo I herd 2 blasts ---ONE in the cap and one in the cylinder, kinda like the Daniel Boon deal, this is unacceptable as I may blow the revolver apart. I seated the .457 ball and the double sound went away and accuracy improved, it also felt like a BP and not a cannon.

.451 ballsI CAN push them into my cylinder? Sorry, Im not going that route, its TOO Dangerous man, TO fire a ball like that is just unacceptable, Im the one holding this gun and I will not do it with .451 balls, that is nonsense with this of type of revolver that requires .457 ballsI could get the velocity down to say 600 fps with the .454 but they STILL back out, .451 is not even in the equasion here, that ball will hit me in the face at that load, they are TOO loose

Ill mount the balls as close to the Forcing - Cone as I can get them, the jump WILL affect accuracy. IF I hafta use powder that is not available to me then this BP stuff can take a flying leapIll use what I have and I will not order special powder thinking it will make me shoot better. Folks use triple 7 and have no problems with it, am I the only one.I think not..Powder and balls is NOT the problem here. At least I dont think it is, otherwise we would have folks all over the world complainng.NOT just me,,,,,,

I will not change my powder or my balls, what you suggest is very dangerous and I refuse to be a part f it.

David L

The Shrink · « **Reply #10 on:** October 03, 2003, 02:26:02 AM »

David

I don't remember if you have done this or not, so if you have ignore this post. Your dissertation on ball size has me wondering, have you measured your bore vs. cylinder mouths? Bore size should be a couple thousands less than the cylinder. This ensures that the ball fits the barrel tightly.

I don't really know how or if this would relate to consistent shooting to the left, but it might help.

simonkenton · « **Reply #11 on:** October 03, 2003, 12:19:02 PM »

David L -- I am sorry for the problems with your Pietta. I can see you are very aggravated.
However, your actions must be taken into account in this expensive fiasco.
As Howdy said, you could have just returned the gun. I would have returned it, before I spent $51 to fix a $130 gun.
I bought a Pietta this year and I like the gun a lot. My hand spring broke, I called Traditions and they sent me a new one for free, and I fixed it myself. I would buy another Pietta in a minute.
Don't look for salvation in Uberti, just because they are more expensive. Lately, it looks like Uberti quality is worse than Pietta. I have heard of quality problems with the Colt brand guns, cost three times as much as the Pietta.
Every company is going to make a lemon now and then. I hope you get your gun straightened out. Then too, as pi**ed off as you are right now, maybe it is better that you don't have a gun.

1860 · « **Reply #12 on:** October 03, 2003, 12:32:57 PM »

RE: no crown, I have originals and they have no crown, I also have Piettas and they have not crown, nor do my Colts. Heck, even original and reproduction Winchester 1873 rifles were not crowned. Believe what you want but this is the way it is and was. Don't believe me, think I'm full of it??, before you run your mouth maybe you should go somewhere and take a look at some of their guns. Or go to a collector site and ask there. I didn't say just take a "HACKsaw" to it, but they did not put a crown on them in the modern sense. Original guns came with the muzzel in the white(no blueing), that is because one of the final steps in the manufacture was to grind the end of the bbl. square and polish it. Putting a crown on your gun certainly would not hurt, especially with your present results. But, I can't help feeling that you tend to jump before you look or listen, you are asking for advice here aren't you?

I'm also out of the purchase at those prices. Sorry for your troubles with the gun but I think you jumped in with out seeing how deep the water was, I'll throw you a line but I'm not jumping in with ya.

1860

Flint · « **Reply #13 on:** October 04, 2003, 02:48:09 PM »

I have 2 blue Pietta remingtons that needed to be throated in the forcing cone very badly, they were almost flat... But I put an 11 degree cone in and they shoot fine. If you shoot a 45 conversion cylinder in them they need a forcing cone job for sure. I have a stainless Pietta that needed a lot of tuning to overcome some of the factory errors, but it is an older one. Basically, I chose the Pietta over the Uberti for the conversions based on the bore dimensions, the Uberti is more like 454. I have 2 Uberti 36 Navies, and they are not bad, but not perfect either, especially for the price difference. One I sent back had the barrel hole bored .030 off center... However, the Uberti Navy is more authentic than the Pietta, but neither has the smaller frame they should have. My Piettas are conbverted with R&D and the 36 Navy with a Kirst.

Good time Charlie · « **Reply #14 on:** October 05, 2003, 04:31:59 PM »

I have a 1858 brass frame remington .44. It is a verry nice gun. It could however use a little work on the rough edges inside. Triger pull is a little strong othe than that I have no complants.

Flint · « **Reply #15 on:** October 05, 2003, 06:34:07 PM »

Tested the stainless Pietta NMA Remington 44 today with an R&D cylinder (from my blue Pietta) and it is functional, though the hammer doesn't strike dead center on the firing pin (or nipple, if that cylinder is installed). However, I cannot testify to the Ubertis being any better or more consistant in quality or accuracy of machining operations, there are things in both brands that just do not line up, and they all need work out of the box. Both have incredibly heavy mainsprings, and the Ubertis are easier to lighten and smooth up with leaf spring grinding. The Pietta is harder to tame and I tend to make my Ruger coil spring modification to a Pietta more often than an Uberti.. Shot a Remington Navy Uberti with a Kirst 38 Special cylinder today in CAS match and it performed very well, and is extremely accurate. .

Dalton Masterson · « **Reply #16 on:** October 14, 2003, 05:27:39 PM »

I have 5 Piettas, 3 of them Remingtons, and all of them have shot close to POA, usually low, and only needed timing work.. I did have a brassframed 51 Colt that the cylinder stop spring broke, and it blew the barrel off, and pretty much ruined me on brass frames.... but I like MY piettas... DM

HWooldridge · « **Reply #17 on:** October 15, 2003, 04:39:53 AM »

Lots of emotion in this thread...I almost hate to post anything.

I have an 1860 Uberti and had no trouble with it aside from the fact it shoots 10-12 inches high but is otherwise dead on and shoots cloverleafs until it gets really dirty. I use 25 gr of FFFg, a Wonder Wad and 457 ball, which seats a good 3/16 below the chamber mouth. I also owned an old Uberti Remington that was quite accurate and reliable plus have shot other Italian guns owned by friends (including Piettas) with no major malfunctions. Maybe I'm just lucky but the cap and balls seem as reliable as most cartridge revolvers, if kept reasonably clean and loaded correctly. I certainly would not want to stand up at 50 yds and let a good pistol shot blast away at me with one.

I do recall hearing some of the Italian makers occasionally farm out to subcontractors so that may be the cause for some of the inconsistencies. It seems a lot of people are experiencing broken springs so the first step might be to buy a Wolff replacement spring set. For the price, I'd expect to do some work on one of these if it malfunctioned but not everyone wants to be a gunsmith so it's good that some sellers like Cabela's have a return policy. Academy Sports doesn't sell C&B revolvers but they make you sign a release that the sale is final and no refund or return is allowed for any reason.

Sounds like Dave got a lemon. I'm sorry for the bad experience but don't think it is typical.

Super Rat · « **Reply #18 on:** November 18, 2003, 12:37:15 PM »

Well I've been shooting cap-n-balls for over 20 years, and I'm thinking that using a filler, and the very light charge of 20 grains of 777 is not helping much. In a cap&ball revolver the jump or travel down the cylinder will not effect accuracy to any measureable degree. You do not have to have the ball seated just below the face of the cylinder, or close to the cone. It is not a cartridge gun. As mentioned round balls are much more forgiving.

777 will compress quite a bit, so a 20 grain charge (in a .45) will just aggravate the light load situation. I think you are going in the wrong direction trying to get better results with lighter loads. I'd load 30 grains of the 777, use maybe two wonder wads, and let the ball seat where it wants. Forget the filler, you are wasting your time doing that.

I'm not sure why you want such a light load in a .45, the Remington Replicas have a lot of case capacity. Maybe you would enjoy a .36 more...maybe the .45 is "too much gun" for you? (no offense intended) Or perhaps an 1860 Replica, with it's smaller cylinder capacity would work better for you. Still, please, trash the filler.

I recently picked up an older, but new in the box Uberti New Model Navy, and really love it. The trigger spring did indeed break about the first couple times I cocked it!! But now it is going strong. I don't think the cylinder alligns exactly with the barrel, but it's a real tack driver so I'm not even going to think about it. The last problem is that the loading latch to loading latch catch on the barrel is not "executed" well, and the lever will drop with full charges of 777. However, it will be simple to fix that, and with less than full loads of 777 it stays put.

Otherwise, fit and finish are really fine, as is the bluing. Probably the best looking pistol I own. It shoots POA, which is really nice. The rifling is really beutiful, and again it's a tack-driver. I really like the gun.

On muzzle crowns, I don't know what's authentic or not, but the first thing I do when I get a new gun is put a good crown on it, unless it already has one that passes my inspection, which is rare. I did a deep crown on the .36 and it really looks nice.

John C · « **Reply #19 on:** November 18, 2003, 09:52:17 PM »

Super Rat;

How do you go about recrowning your barrels? I've been wanting to recrown a pistol or two, but have been hesitant. I've heard of a bunch of methods, but it seems that you really need a lathe to make sure the new crown in square.

Thanks,

-John C

Good time Charlie · « **Reply #20 on:** November 19, 2003, 02:45:54 AM »

I have to agree with super rat about the filler. I tryed useing a corn meal filler the other day and for the first time sence I have owned this gun it went to jaming up. The gun would get so dirty in just a few shots that I would have to clean it before I could keep shooting. For me it is back to powder wonder wad and ball and nothing eles. Oh yes I use triple 7 ,3f.

Super Rat · « **Reply #21 on:** November 19, 2003, 12:53:05 PM »

I just use any kind of cutter or router bit that has the right shape. Any hardware store has them, with the 1/4" shank. The trick is to use a hand drill, the old fashioned crank type. No power drills, just hand and arm power.

The bore seems to act as a guide to keep everything square, but the first time you do it, have someone stand off to the side and direct your up and down alingment, and you keep it alligned right and left.

Sounds funky but it works. You can get some really nice looking and functional deep crowns. You can also hit your local gunsmiths and get pieces of barrel to practice on.

John C · « **Reply #22 on:** November 19, 2003, 04:33:48 PM »

Super Rat;

Thanks for the info. I've got an old Armi San Marco '51 Navy that probably needs treatment. It's in pretty rough shape, so no loss if I goof.

Could you be a bit more specific on the type of cutter to be used? I have several sets of router bits, should I find one that will work and try it out? Or get a special metal cutting one (carbide bit)?

Thanks,

-John C

The Shrink · « **Reply #23 on:** November 20, 2003, 01:29:34 AM »

John C

This is probably easiest done with a simple grinding ball that can be chucked into a drill. degree of finish is determined by the grit of the ball. As long as the ball is round all you have to do is describe small circles with your drill motor to get a good crown.

However you do it, I agree that practice on throwaway pieces is highly recommended.

Cuts Crooked · « **Reply #24 on:** November 20, 2003, 05:28:34 AM »

Super Rat, thanks fer reiterating something that I've tried to tell folks fer a long time about C&Bs. I have long known that seating balls as near the front of the chamber as possible did not contribute to accuracy. This is a carry over from cartridge revolvers, in which the "jump" from the case to forcing cone involved having the slug pass through the front area of the cylinder mouth, which is slightly larger than the slug diameter. In doing so a slug can become slightly misaligned, entering the rifling slightly off center.

This can't happen in a C&B! Each projectile is "perfectly fitted" to the chamber it's seated in and it has no "jump" to make! You wouldn't believe how many times I've been told I'm full of crap about that, by shooteres who should know better! :roll:

BTW, I have used a drill press and clamps to crown barrels, with a "christmas tree" shaped grinding stone, wrapped in emory cloth! A perfect crown every time! :-)

(turning the drill shaft by hand!!!!)

Super Rat · « **Reply #25 on:** November 21, 2003, 06:38:11 PM »

John C, whatever shape you want the crown to be, that's the cutter you want. Generally you want one that's a "half-round" shape, or the shape of a round-nose bullet. I've also seen them kind of ball-shaped which work good. I prefer the "round nose" cutter. Just go to any hardware store and you'll see what I mean. I'm not postive they are router cutters, but I think that's what they are. They have a 1/4" shank.

Other methods described all work good too. What the router cutter and hand drill will give you is what I call a "deep crown", which I really like. You can cut to any depth you want, from a very light cut, to a very deep 1/8" or more, which really protects the bore from nicks and dings. On my modern rifles I go very deep, and have some real tack-drivers done that way. Again, it makes for a real "neat", or dare I say "sexy" looking crown.

I've never used a carbide cutter, I have a feeling it would cut too deep too fast. ?? I use those for engine work, and they are sharp and nasty little bits.

El Confederado · « **Reply #26 on:** December 14, 2003, 08:51:41 PM »

David,
Sorry about the hog leg pard, but you have had me rollin since I read the part about spending 61.00 on a 130.00 pistol and then when some old boys wanted to by it off ya , ya wanted to charge them 226.00. Man what a headache, I feel fo ya.Let me guess you bought it mail order?