Author Topic: Safety warning - Old M77 w/tang safety (Read 1544 times)

Airsporter · « **on:** January 07, 2005, 12:40:10 PM »

Almost bought it today (the farm that is)! After we hunted all day, one of my buddies was unloading his older tang-safety M77 when it discharged a couple feet from my head. Fortunately for me he had it pointed skyward. Told him I was okay - but he would have to excuse me for a minute while I checked my shorts!

This is the story. The older M77 bolt is locked in the closed position when the safety is on. When unloading the gun, with his gloves on, he pushed the safety to the fire position to unlock the bolt. However, instead of immediately retracting the bolt, he put his finger into the trigger guard to activate the magazine floorplate release. BOOM!

The bolt-locking safety and the inside-the-trigger-guard magazine release can be a deadly combo. I think Ruger really screwed up when they made this decision. Should have known why Mauser and Winchester went with 3-position safeties for decades!

Lawdog · « **Reply #1 on:** January 07, 2005, 01:12:20 PM »

Airsporter,

Actually, it sounds like your friend needs some safety training. Why didnt he unload the chamber first and then while the bolt was open, depress the magazine release to unload the magazine? I dont blame the tang safety on this but on your friend's lack of safe handling practices. Lawdog

Lynn Alan Kietzman · « **Reply #2 on:** January 07, 2005, 02:22:30 PM »

I have heard stories of firearms discharging when the safety was disengaged, true or not I don't know. But having heard those stories, true or not, why would anyone release a safety without the firearm being pointed in a safe direction. Glad you're okay. I'm thinking your buddy should have worn your soiled underware home on his head.

Lynn Alan Kietzman · « **Reply #3 on:** January 07, 2005, 02:25:20 PM »

My daughter tells me that underware is really spelled underwear. Where was she a few minutes ago?

Greybeard · « **Reply #4 on:** January 07, 2005, 05:58:46 PM »

That wasn't a safety warning it was a STUPIDITY warning. Your friend definitely needs a safety class. I'd either give it to him or find another hunting partner. The gun WAS NOT at fault.

Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #5 on:** January 07, 2005, 06:26:35 PM »

I have to agree with Lawdog and Graybeard on this one -- the problem wasn't with the tang safety, it was with your buddy's gun handling technique.

What was his finger doing anywhere near the trigger with a cartridge in the chamber and the safety off? Yeah, I know, unloading the magazine. But why wasn't the chamber cleared FIRST???

By the way, the "newer" tang safeties allow the bolt to be opened with the safety engaged. Not sure when Ruger made the switch but the feature is on my .257 Roberts that was made in 1989. You might have your buddy check his rifle.

Airsporter · « **Reply #6 on:** January 07, 2005, 10:58:09 PM »

My point is simply that the older M77 cannot be unloaded with the safety engaged. Act appropriately. I'm sure Ruger didn't change this feature on subsequent versions because they were bored.

Regarding my hunting buddy's actions, he did several things in a sequence that created a recipe for disaster. Yes it was clearly shooter error(s) not a malfunction.

BTW, he a long-time shooter, hunter, club member, and NRA certified range safety officer. Go figure!

Darrell Davis · « **Reply #7 on:** January 17, 2005, 12:50:22 PM »

Hey there Ruger shooters,

As per a tang safety Ruger going off when the safety is moved to the safety position, IT CAN HAPPEN.

It did happen on my "FLAT Bolt," .243. H O W E V E R, -----------------

The fault WAS NOT Ruger's!

I had had the trigger worked on by a gunsmith and although he was a trained/schooled gunsmith, he did leave the rifle with a problem!

The rifle had about as sweet a trigger as anyone could want on a hunting rifle, but the problem came to the surface "with a bang," one November day.

I had been hunting in the cold weather for a number of hours with no oppertunity for a shot. When I returned to my rig I clicked OFF the safety to clear the chamber, at which time the rifle discharged. My finger was not on or near the trigger.

The trigger was simply set too fine and the cold weather was enough to contract the remaining metal to the point that the only thing preventing discharge was the safety.

I didn't use/fire the rifle for over a year, at which time I took it to another smith. I told him what had happened, and he fixed the problem and still left me with a very nice AND safe trigger.

Keep em coming! :-)

Lawdog · « **Reply #8 on:** January 25, 2005, 12:20:17 PM »

Airsporter,

Point of fact is there is nothing wrong with the older 'tang safety" on the Ruger M77. The total fault of what happened belongs with your friend. I asked five different NRA certified instructors and they all agreed you friend screwed up.

Quote

BTW, he a long-time shooter, hunter, club member, and NRA certified range safety officer. Go figure!

Your friend should be the first to admit he messed up. Not the rifles fault. Lawdog

Siskiyou · « **Reply #9 on:** January 25, 2005, 05:44:36 PM »

I have to agree as an old hunter safety instructor, the problem was not the rifle. I have own a tang safety M77 for a little less then 30 years. I never had an accidental discharge. Clearly a sign the handler needs additonal training. I suspect that if you are out in the field with this person using whatever firearm you will be watching out for number one.

Bigkahuna · « **Reply #10 on:** February 26, 2005, 07:54:39 PM »

Yes, having owned a lot of Rugers over the years, I can safely say it all started with the thinking process of the person handling the firearm.
Hopefully someone can run him through a safety refresher course, he most definitely needs one.
As humans, we can become complacent.

Airsporter · « **Reply #11 on:** March 20, 2005, 02:12:05 PM »

Gee guys, I clearly admitted my buddy screwed up. However, my point of fact remains - you must disengege the safety before you can open the bolt. Never a safe way to unload!

That being the case, what's your take on why Ruger changed this? Are you such dye-in-the-wool Ruger fans (perhaps fanatics) that you can't admit Ruger came up with a lousy design feature?

Or, maybe Mauser, Winchester, Remington, and the rest of the fireams world are clueless and Ruger did it right (Bang! Oops! You should have known better! We do it different than everybody else.).

Omaha-BeenGlockin · « **Reply #12 on:** March 20, 2005, 07:40:55 PM »

Still operator error when boiled down------the MkII version just makes it more idiot proof(read--lawyer proof)----it still comes down to who's handling the gun.

poncaguy · « **Reply #13 on:** March 21, 2005, 07:35:15 AM »

I've owned a 22-250 Ruger with a tang saftey for 25+ years, never had a problem............ I know how to operate all the firearms I own and shoot. :wink:

Lawdog · « **Reply #14 on:** March 22, 2005, 12:15:59 PM »

Quote from: Airsporter

Gee guys, I clearly admitted my buddy screwed up. However, my point of fact remains - you must disengege the safety before you can open the bolt. Never a safe way to unload!

That being the case, what's your take on why Ruger changed this? Are you such dye-in-the-wool Ruger fans (perhaps fanatics) that you can't admit Ruger came up with a lousy design feature?

Or, maybe Mauser, Winchester, Remington, and the rest of the fireams world are clueless and Ruger did it right (Bang! Oops! You should have known better! We do it different than everybody else.).

Your friend should have dumped the contents of the magazine BEFORE releasing the safety. This is the safe way of unloading that Ruger rifle. This is why I prefer a hinged magazine over the non-hinged versions. There is nothing wrong with the old tang safety on the Ruger. The reason Ruger changed it was due to pressure from their attorneys. Wanted to make a more idiot proof safety for fewer possible law suits. As you admitted your friend screwed up and no amount of argument can justify that point. Lawdog

Carl l. · « **Reply #15 on:** March 22, 2005, 04:33:46 PM »

I have a Ruger made in 1970 and have used it a lot and I have never had that happen. I think most of the old rifles were made that way. I have a Rem. 722 made in `1956 and it is the same way. So I don't think you can blame it on Ruger. Carl L.

Omaha-BeenGlockin · « **Reply #16 on:** March 23, 2005, 05:14:12 AM »

OK---I think the point has been made---an the old dead horse is tired of taking a beating-----time to move on.