Educate me on cast hunting bullets...

[DakotaElkSlayer]

I am interested in loading cast bullets for hunting and really don't know anything about them.  What shape of bullet is the best for deer sized game?  Are there any reasonably priced brands you'd recommend?  Any and all information greatly appreciated!

Jim

[TScottO]

What cal. gun? What kind of gun?

[Tad Houston]

I like cast performance LBT wide flat nose gas checked with full house loads in my 41 and 44 mags. I think they are about $18 a hundred in the cabelas catalog.

[S.B.]

For hunting the semi wad cutter seems to be the favorite. The wide front area seem to do best for quick kills. If cast hard, they have the penetration for game animals like wild boar. I, personally, prefer jacketed hollow points for deer but, the semi wad cutter will do the job if bullet placement is good. Of course bullet placement is important with any bullet or caliber.

[DakotaElkSlayer]

Oops!  Forgot to say....45 Colt SBHH.  

Are any of those cast bullets soft enough to expand any on deer?  Some articles I have read say that expansion isn't needed, others say it is?

Jim

[Duffy]

If the bullet is soft enough to reliably expand then it is too soft to be driven fast enough for good penetration and fair range trajectory. I use a LFN 320g in my 44 @ 1400 fps and it stops deer very well. The wound channel is clear through and a little bigger than a golf ball and none have gone farther than 10 yards after being fairly hit. You have to think totaly different when using cast bullets and/or handguns when hunting large game. There isn't the explosive shock/tissue damage factor like with a rifle round so you have to do more precise respritory or pulmanary damage.

[DakotaElkSlayer]

Duffy...ya got to educate me...what does LFN stand for?  How does your under a half inch bullet make a golf ball size hole when there is no expansion?  Thanks!


Jim

[Zcarp2]

LFN - Long Flat Nose from Veral Smith at LBT (see the forum about handloading and casting bullets a bit further down.

Golf ball sized holes come from hydrostatic shock.  The large meplat (flat spot on the front of the bullets) transfer energy to the tissue and uses that as a diameter multiplier.  Instead of a spitzer (FMJ) acting like an ice pick and pushing tissue out of the path of the bullet.  Large meplats increase the effectiveness of lower velocity, non expanding projectiles.  To prove this, flat nose some 22 LR's and try it.  A file or a pair of wire cutters will work.  For accuracy, try to get the meplat flat.

Welcome and have fun!

[S.B.]

I apologize for walking on your post but, was wondering if any here have tried this product? Your discussion of large meplats and .22 LR's has raised my interest.

http://www.leverguns.com/store/acurizer.htm

[MtJerry]

If the bullet is soft enough to reliably expand then it is too soft to be driven fast enough for good penetration and fair range trajectory. I use a LFN 320g in my 44 @ 1400 fps and it stops deer very well. The wound channel is clear through and a little bigger than a golf ball and none have gone farther than 10 yards after being fairly hit. You have to think totaly different when using cast bullets and/or handguns when hunting large game. There isn't the explosive shock/tissue damage factor like with a rifle round so you have to do more precise respritory or pulmanary damage.

The key to this information is the fact that when using hard cast bullets with a large meplat, you will NOT have large amounts of shock-damaged, bloodshot tissue that is in essence lost meat.

You WILL be able to eat right up to the hole.

[S.B.]

The key to this information is the fact that when using hard cast bullets with a large meplat, you will NOT have large amounts of shock-damaged, bloodshot tissue that is in essence lost meat.

You WILL be able to eat right up to the hole.

True but, if the shot is placed well into the heart lung area no meat loss or very little can be expected. The key to this as well as any hunting shot, is shot placement.

[Dusty Miller]

Any 300 gr. flat nosed bullet at 1200 fps will take deer reliably.  As for pigs, well..............maybe I'd like a little more horsepower than 1200 fps but I'd guess that 1600 fps is way more than sufficient.  I'm a bit of a chicken and can't imagine going after swine with a 45 Colt unless head shots are probable.

[Castaway]

Dusty, don't know how tough your hogs are, but where I come from a 255 grain bullet at over 1000 f/s passes through any hog in my area

[Redhawk1]

For deer, I would use hornady or Barnes bullets. For hogs I would go with a hard cast bullet from Cast Performance. JMHO.  

[MtJerry]

The key to this information is the fact that when using hard cast bullets with a large meplat, you will NOT have large amounts of shock-damaged, bloodshot tissue that is in essence lost meat.

You WILL be able to eat right up to the hole.

True but, if the shot is placed well into the heart lung area no meat loss or very little can be expected. The key to this as well as any hunting shot, is shot placement.

With large diameter, slow,, cast bullets, you WILL be able to eat right up to the hole REGARDLESS of where you hit him ... shot placement is still key to kill the animal.

[S.B.]

Didn't mean to imply that I shoot them at a slow pace. Actually, mine are going around 1350fps. from my 629 Classic.  And they will do tissue damage at that speed if the shot isn't in the boiler room. I'm not fond of any blood shot meat.

[DakotaElkSlayer]

Thanks guys!  So is there a BEST shape for hunting?  Is a LFN better than a SWC?

Thanks,

Jim

[S.B.]

I think that's a matter of personal opinion, different strokes for different folks. If you talking about whitetail deer with a .44 mag., mine would be a 240 grain jacketed hollow point? If I were forced to hunt with cast bullets or I were hunting something with thicker skin,  I would opt for the big flat nose surface like is mentioned above. Remember, no two situations or game animals are ever exactly alike. My $.02.

[Castaway]

DakotaElkSlayer, I'm sure I'll get a lot of diasgreement, but a semi-wadcutter or variant of Keith design is fine for dispatching deer or hogs.  The LFN is great and may have a slight edge, but with a 45 caliber starting hole, a large meplat and heavy bullet, either will get the job done quiet well.  One can argue the LFN is a better bullet than a Keith designed bullet, but if you are shooting game on that close of an edge, maybe you don't need to shoot.  Either will do the job you ask of it.  Don't worry, hunt with what shoots best in your own particular bullet launcher.  (Sorry Veral)

[hunt4570]

S.B. you keep saying that you would rather use plated hollow points,why and to what distance?I'm used to rifles and contenders(hand rifles),I just bought a 44 mag redhawk 7 1/2"bbl and I'm trying to figure out loads for hunting.(mostly deer and maybe some hogs)SGB

[S.B.]

hunt4570, didn't mean to imply that I used plated bullets but, I do prefer jacketed ones over cast. The jacketed bullets I use expand at least 1/2-5/8 the origianl diameterat the velocity (+or-1350 fps) that I shoot them at deer. From the kills I've made, they seem to do the job a little quicker and cleaner than cast.

[mrcasull]

This past year I used a cast hp in my 45 colt and it worked great. I did some fast shooting on a large 9 point this deer stumbled to his feet twice so I hit him 3 times all 3 shots hit in a 5" area on the shoulder. I found 2 of the bullets in this deer great expansion and penetration. The reason I use this bullet in my 45 is it shoots so well and the man that makes them does a great job. This is a 250 keith hp 1 part tin 20 parts lead and driven at 1400 fps it's a great bullet.

[hunt4570]

Ya I meant to say jacketed...my brain went temperaraly numb.I,m still trying to figure out this jacketed vs cast bullet thing.Looking through my catalogs I see 44 bullets in different dia's,why?Also people talk about lube,when,where,why?Is there a good book on the subject?SGB

[Odinbreaker]

I cast a 310 gr w/gascheck 44 mag and a 240 gr lead .  310 gr vel. are about 1200 out of ruger 7 1/2 super red hawk.  very hard hitting.  240 is loaded for plinking and fun easier on hand.  I also cast 175gr 30 cal and 38cal 150 swc all make for inexpensive shooting 38 special at about 4cents per shot

[DakotaElkSlayer]

Feel free to "hijack" thread at any time...I need all the info I can get! :grin:

How does one avoid leading the barrel?  Is it a concern with the mild hunting rounds(250-265gr. @1000fps)?  Do you "prep" the barrel anyway before shooting cast to reduce or eliminate leading?

Thanks guys,

Jim

[S.B.]

Feel free to "hijack" thread at any time...I need all the info I can get! :grin:

How does one avoid leading the barrel?  Is it a concern with the mild hunting rounds(250-265gr. @1000fps)?  Do you "prep" the barrel anyway before shooting cast to reduce or eliminate leading?

Thanks guys,

Jim

In my experience, Ruger barrels are notorious for leading with cast slugs, even at slightly higher velocities (1200fps range). Firelapping usually cures this. In the velocity range you mention, most good barrels don't have a problem. Preventing lead build up or at least slowing it down, is controled by hardening the alloy, certain lubricants, and some times even gas checks are used. Jacketed bullet don't have the same problems as cast when it comes to cleaning the barrel but have other draw backs? I agree, if your not sure of what is going to work in your particular gun, experimentaion and a good book or two should help. Most handloaders are die hard experimenters at heart (myself encluded) and are never quite satisfied with anything, so I guess this discussion is endless?