did I get some bad win 45gr varmint ammo?

[nipprdog]

on its last few outings(couple boxes worth, relevant later), my 223 handi has not performed like it used to. out of a five shot group, there will be 2 or 3 flyers, with no consistent pattern.

rifle is about 2 years old, with only about 500 rds through it at most.

my first thought was the scope. just a bushnell banner. so I took it off, and put on the new simmons scope that I have on my Sportster 17HMR.

took it to the range for a test. after zeroing, the results were the same.
so I ruled out the scope.

then I figured its either; me, the rifle, or the ammo.

I have a savage 10FP in 223 that is quite a shooter, and had it with me.
I shot some of the win45 in it last year,when I first got it. it shot very well, but it had feeding problems due to the jagged edges of the HP. I shoot BHM 68gr hp in the savage.

I shot a 5shot group through the savage with the win45, and it was terrible.

upon inspection after returnig home, I learned that the current box I was using, as well as the last 2(I save them to trade in at shows), all had the same code on the box flap. "5TL61"



I have 3 more boxes with that code on hand, as well as 2 boxes with the code on the right.

tests are not conclusive, of course. I plan to go out again with some of 'other code' stuff, as well as some BHM 52gr hp I picked up today.

If it shoots like it used to with these, should I expect winchester to exchange the ammo if I send it to them?

[myarmor]

I am not quite sure about the product run there nipprdog. But mine also has had a few flyers, and a hard time getting the groups to stay were I want them. In my past post about speeding up the lock time on an H&R, I got some good feedback on my delima. However I haven't been able to put it back on paper yet after getting some higher rings for my scope.
Good luck to ya friend. I am sure someone here can offer a little more assistance than me. :drink4:

[James B]

If your suspicion are true and you send them a target and maybe the flaps from the boxes they may replace the. It would be worth a try anyway. I have not heard of anyone else having this problem but I have read from a few others on here that their guns did not shoot this bullet well. In most Handi rifles they seem to shoot pretty good.

[nipprdog]

I am not quite sure about the product run there nipprdog. But mine also has had a few flyers, and a hard time getting the groups to stay were I want them.

thanks, but I'm not talking about a few flyers. as posted, this rifle has shot very consistent for over 2 years, with the only flyers being 'called' ones.

and now, it has flyers in every group.

I'd like to think I've ruled out the 'me' factor since I've been shooting my other rifles the same.


http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=58426

on the last outing, I shot this 3shot, 1/4" group withn my Rem 700VLS in 22-250, with coincidentally, winchester 45gr varmint load.



JamesB, thanx. I forgot to mention that in the 2 years I've shot this rifle, the win 45gr is the only round I've used.

[quickdtoo]

You might try shimming the forend to make the action tighter. I'm working on this right now to see it it makes a difference. Remove the forend, remove the 2 screws that hold the spacer on the forend. Cut a shim the shape of the spacer and place it between the spacer and forend and reassemble and install. I started with some aluminum furnace tape that measures .006" thick. It made a difference on how tight the forend slipped on the barrel and how tight the action was to open and close. The shim when trimmed can't be seen unless you look real close.  I'm hoping that it will eliminate the stringing and flyers. My thinking in your case Nipprdog is that the opening and closing of the action over thousands of shots has loosened the fit of the plastic forend spacer due to wear. I would also recommed using a bit of lube on the barrel pivot to prevent wear on it. If the shim doesn't work, there's no loss, just remove it and try something else... :wink:

Tim

[myarmor]

Wow-very nice nipprdog. Some killer shooting with that 22-250.  How do you like your new Simmons Scope on your 17? I have been looking at the same one at Natchez. Sorry if I got off topic.
But my 223 shoots great with these as do most Ultras and Handi's. I believe my new rings will solve my minor problems I am having. But why not call Winchester and tell them your delima with the ammo?

[nipprdog]

My thinking in your case Nipprdog is that the opening and closing of the action over thousands of shots has loosened the fit of the plastic forend spacer due to wear. I would also recommed using a bit of lube on the barrel pivot to prevent wear on it. If the shim doesn't work, there's no loss, just remove it and try something else... :wink:

Tim

thanks, Tim.

as mentioned though, the rifle has only 500rds through it.

if the different ammo tests don't provide better results, I will try the shims.

again, thanx. :wink:

[quickdtoo]

I guess I should have said after cycling the action thousands of times... :oops:

[nipprdog]

Wow-very nice nipprdog. Some killer shooting with that 22-250.  How do you like your new Simmons Scope on your 17? I have been looking at the same one at Natchez. Sorry if I got off topic.
But my 223 shoots great with these as do most Ultras and Handi's. I believe my new rings will solve my minor problems I am having. But why not call Winchester and tell them your delima with the ammo?

thanx. the scope is the PRO-50 model.  I like it so far.

as for calling winchester, I'm going to wait until after I can test with the other box of win and the black hills to see if it was that ammo.

and if I have to call them, a vendor at the Indy 1500 show gave me an 800 number for winchester. :wink:

[tanoose]

Have you tried a different brand of 223 ammo yet if not do so and see how the groups are if you still get the flyers then  its not the winchester ammo . Also which shots are flyers it could be that your heating up the barrel to much. I would also do a complete cleaning tand make sure your barrel is not fouled with lead or copper. Clean the rifle try the win ammo again and then try another brand , and then start from there.