New Muzzle Loader

[savageT]

Recently, I returned my 50 cal. side-lock to Traditions for evaluation.  In the three years I owned the gun, I was never able to get decent groupings.  Frankly, I thought the barrel looked like a sewer pipe with swirls in the rifling.  They had their gunsmith look it over and fired it and came up with the same conclusion....won't group!

They offered to replace my discontinued Cabela's model, a relatively traditional long-rifle w/ 1:32 twist and percussion cap ignition with a carbine length percussion cap 50 cal. side-lock model with removable breech plug in 1:32 twist and weighs in at 7 pounds.  It's called the "Thunder Magnum and yes, it will take up to 150 grains of b/p!  Today, I  received the gun from UPS and spent an hour cleaning it and dis-assembling the gun.  They returned my Williams receiver sight that was on the original gun, and it fit on the new one just ahead of the nipple.  It has the only safety equipped side-hammer lock on the market today. What they offered looks very decent for a basic muzzle-loader and has a hardwood stock and aluminum ram-rod.  The trigger feels good...probably in the 4-5 lb. range I'm guessing.  

I'm very happy with the way I was treated and I hope that I will have good luck at the range...........Time will tell.  I think Traditions deserves a fair shake for their excellent customer service, and just wanted you to know they stand behind their products!

Jim

[mamaflinter]

It's called the "Thunder Magnum and yes, it will take up to 150 grains of b/p!  
Jim

Jim Don't be so quick to jump on the hype. That's the latest advertising scheme designed to get people to think that their muzzleloader is more powerful. In reality any .50 caliber mz will stand 150 grainds of bp. The problem is this: If you are using rifle grade powder such as Goex, Elephant, etc. you will stoke that much powder down the bore and soon realize that your groups aren't nearly as good as they could be. You might even find that the best range is between 80-90 gr. You waste quite a bit of powder when overloading and get kicked a he** of a lot harder for nothing. If you are using sporting grade powder (Swiss), you won't get good accuracy either as you have long since passed your laws of diminishing returns. Sporting powder operates best at the 1 grain per caliber ratio. So that being said, they're trying to feed you a line of bull.

[savageT]

It's called the "Thunder Magnum and yes, it will take up to 150 grains of b/p!  
Jim

Jim Don't be so quick to jump on the hype. That's the latest advertising scheme designed to get people to think that their muzzleloader is more powerful. In reality any .50 caliber mz will stand 150 grainds of bp. The problem is this: If you are using rifle grade powder such as Goex, Elephant, etc. you will stoke that much powder down the bore and soon realize that your groups aren't nearly as good as they could be. You might even find that the best range is between 80-90 gr. You waste quite a bit of powder when overloading and get kicked a he** of a lot harder for nothing. If you are using sporting grade powder (Swiss), you won't get good accuracy either as you have long since passed your laws of diminishing returns. Sporting powder operates best at the 1 grain per caliber ratio. So that being said, they're trying to feed you a line of bull.

Mamaflinter,
How True  it is!  Hype is what sells the newest and greatest...........
I haven't fired the new muzzle loader as yet and really have no plans on using anything over 90 grains of double-f powder.  I take it your a dyed-in-the-wool buckskinner so I won't go into what I'm loading other than to say I have plans on using what I did in the previous gun.  Thanks and keep your elephant dry!

Jim

[mamaflinter]

Mamaflinter,
How True  it is!  Hype is what sells the newest and greatest...........
I haven't fired the new muzzle loader as yet and really have no plans on using anything over 90 grains of double-f powder.  I take it your a dyed-in-the-wool buckskinner so I won't go into what I'm loading other than to say I have plans on using what I did in the previous gun.  Thanks and keep your elephant dry!

Jim

Well as far as me being a dyed in the wool buckskinner. I prefer shooting patched balls in my flintlock. However that doesn't mean that I don't mind talking to others who shoot conicals or saboted rounds in their mz. I talk quite frequently to shooters who use the Savage model 10s and 10-IIs using some mighty hefty smokeless loads that kick on both ends.

The way I see it is this. Although I have my preferences, I don't close my mind to learning about other ideas and what others are doing. So what are you loading in the way of projectiles?

[savageT]

MammaF,
I've never used the "real black powder" because local stores won't sell it and I don't participate in the black powder shoots at my club where I could get a pound. I don't have the patch and ball twist that would be allowed in competition/ woods walk.  I have a few other excuses if you're not buying that one!

I have been using 90gr. 2-f Hodgdons' Triple-7 powder w/ T/C's 45cal. XTP 240 grain bullets & sabots and also Precision Rifles polymer tipped cal. sabots.  The history (3 years) of my old Cabela's 1:32 side lock was inconsistant.  Results were all over the place with no grouping and that led me to return the gun to the factory for evaluation.  They recommended replacing the gun and offered the one I now have.  I am going to get started on using the same loads and go from there.  Thanks for asking.  By the way, someone said they like your Moosemilk lube.  Do you have the recipe handy?  I've used a spit-patch swab after every firing in the past.

[simonkenton]

The hype and bs in the muzzleloading industry is outrageous. This is especially so for the inlines. Every body has to advertise,"Magnum Loads, 150 grain capable." Otherwise respectable companies like Thompson Center have climbed on the bandwagon. I guess they make more money by putting bs in their ads.
I had a good experience with Traditions customer service. I bought a Traditions Colt 1860 Army revolver from Bass Pro Shop. This pistol is made by Pietta, really it is a nice pistol very tight and well made. One day the main spring broke. I guess anybody could make a faulty main spring. Rather than drive up to Bass Pro, I looked at my warranty. It said, if you have any problem, don't go back to the store. Call this number. I called the number, and the guy mailed me a new spring, no questions asked. I got it in 3 days.

[kevin]

 Yep Mamaflinter is so right on the wonder hype of 150 gr super magnum mussel loaders(correct spelling),  after using and shooting muzzlloaders with my father in the middle 70's at 5 years old iv'e used t/c hawkin cva's the newer  traditons, pedersoli's, custom made rifles and smooth bores and resently whent back to useing a fanagled cap guns and in the last 5 years shooting and building civil war rifles and smooth bore guns.
     mama is very right in saying that some folks like to shoot lots of powder and huge balls ,mini's, maxi's ,sabots,  power belts and have a tremedous recoil and loosing accuracy for power, and some folks even feel more powder will knock a deer over and put them down, well yes it can, but at the same time ,the tried and tested  round ball has killed more bear, deer , buffalo, elk , you name it than any wonder bullet or powder.
      .
      ive been using 75-90 grains of black powder with round ball  and knowing how and were to plase my bullet, up to and including 100 yards, i know i'll be hearing some flack on that, but you need to know your limitations and your rifles limitations, with this i'm saying that if and when the thirty point buck jumps out and stands broad side to me at 105 yards i would not hesitate to put him in the freezer.

    folks be safe and have fun with your muzzloaders and only use what the manufacters say sould be used in your guns, not what the other guy
is using in their guns, we all got to show the others out their that we are safe and good people , not the terrorists that the anti gun crowd thinks we are.

[Dan Chamberlain]

Savage;

What was the load that wouldn't group?  That's pretty fast twist for a long rifle!  If you were shooting roundball, you'd have to be loading pretty light to avoid striping the patches.  Care to share?

Dan C

[savageT]

Savage;

What was the load that wouldn't group?  That's pretty fast twist for a long rifle!  If you were shooting roundball, you'd have to be loading pretty light to avoid striping the patches.  Care to share?

Dan C

Dan,
 I've tried everything from (2) 50 gr. pellets and loose powder Pyrodex-2f,  on up to 110 grains Triple 7-2F with 240 gr. lead Cabela sabots, T/C Maxihunters conicals, Precision Rifles 40cal. 240gr. polymer sabots w/ 100gr. Triple 7, and finally 45cal. XTP 240gr. sabots w/90grains Triple 7.  Never tried patch and ball because of the fast twist.  The bore looked like a sewer pipe.  It had visable swirls from machining that were apparently the cause of the poor accuracy.  The gun was marketed as being a traditional 50cal. side hammer w/ musket primer ignition, that would allow the use of Pyrodex pellets (not true), with either conicals or sabots.  I've never tried round ball and patch.

Jim

[mamaflinter]

Savage here ya go.

I am often asked for the recipe to make this lube. This is not something I invented, it was brought to my attention by another shooter and I found it works great as a patch lube.

Moose milk is made easily at home. To do so you will need the following ingredients:

Napa water soluble cutting oil (if your local napa store doesn't have it in stock the part number is 765-1526 for 1 pint)
Murphy's oil soap
1 liter water bottle
water
rubbing alcohol (optional)

Fill water bottle half full with WARM water. Add 2 oz. each of the water soluble oil and the murphy's oil soap. Shake well and watch it turn white. This means it is mixed. Once mixed it won't unmix. Fill bottle up with water.

If you live in or hunt in an area that has alot of sub-zero temps. you can replace the water with rubbing alcohol to prevent it from freezing.

This is a fine lube for patches and keeps fouling soft.
********************************************************

This is intended for a PATCH LUBE ONLY! Do not use it as a rust preventer after cleaning as the oil will absorb moisture from the atmosphere and could result in rust.