JHP vs. JSP!

[De41mag]

This basically is covering the 44mag. barrel, or at least a handgun cartridge in a rifle.
The H&R/NEF 44mag. barrel is 22 inches. So when shooting or hunting for deer, should a JHP be used or a JSP. As far as deer in the southeast, I think a JHP should be good for around here in Alabama. I've read that even a JHP 240gr. won't hardly expand in a handgun with a barrel length of 6 to 7-1/2 inches. We are talking jacketed bullets here.
With a rifle length barrel, will a JSP expand at these velocities.
Reason I'm asking is that the Winchester 240gr. JSP that you get at Wally World, shows very good accuracy in the Handi 44mag. barrel.
What is your opinion?
Thanks.

Dennis  

[cattleskinner]

Hey Dennis,

I don't have alot of first hand experience on deer with the .44, but this past season I shot one with mine.  I used a 240gr. XTP on top of 20gr of 2400 powder, and at 75yds, it went completely through the yearling deer(it was quartering to me...hit the shoulder, and exited about the last rib on the other side).  The exit hole was about the same as the entrance, but inside it tore up the plumbing pretty good.  I would say that about any 240gr. HP or SP jacketed bullet will work great for your deer.  I've also used the Win. SP load you mentioned, and it was accurate in my handgun(14" Lone Eagle), but it kicked like a mule.  After digging some out of the dirtbank at my house, they had expanded some but not to a pretty mushroom like the HP bullets I've used...It was maybe .6" or so for the SP.  It should expand a little more out of an 8" longer barrel of the handi.  Of the HP bullets, the XTP all made nice mushrooms, even out of the slower loads, and the bulk Win. HSP bullets act much like SP bullets from what I've seen so far.  That being said, I picked up some 270gr GDSP bullets to try too...possibilities are endless!!!  I guess it all comes down to putting it in the chest and the deer will drop...doesn't really matter what kind of bullet you use with the .44.  Good luck, and holler if you need any help.  Just my :money:  

~~~Cattleskinner

[Graybeard]

Wal Dennis based on our experience the Hornady 240 XTP-JHP over 24.0 grains of either H110 or W296 is pure poison on deer size game. Faye dropped both of her rams with that load. On that first one there was a hole on the off side where it exited you could put your fist into. Dropped on the spot and didn't move from a shoulder shot. The larger one ran a bit but just because he didn't know he was dead yet. Again an exit and a big hole.

I've used it in handguns on several deer and am always happy with the results. It's a bullet use and recommend in both handgun and rifle.

[mt3030]

I think any of the for-mentioned bullets, if placed right, will do the trick. I've been using nothing but Remington 240 HP, available in bulk from Midway, for years in both handguns and rifles. Use what ever your gun shoots best. Good shooting..mt

[De41mag]

cattleskinner, Greybeard;

So far the HP seems to do the job in a rifle or a handgun from your experience.
I do recall JPH45 saying that he has tried the Speer 270gr. JSP with good results, but little or no expanison. And I've shot the Speer 300gr. JSP but not at any game animals. I think he said they act like a cast bullet or was made to repleciate cast bullet performence.
So what I'm getting at is, a JSP bullet in 44mag (240gr.) out of a 22 inch barrel will probably not expand on whitetails, at least not enough to make a difference. Would this be an accurate conclusion???
If so, then would one not be better off by using a cast bullet with a wide meplat and a sharp shoulder?
Just trying to get some ideas.
Thanks.

Dennis  

[cattleskinner]

Dennis,

I don't have any experience with cast bullets to say one way or the other about them.  That being said, I've read a lot of good things about them from people who have used them on game.  I would guess your conclusion about SP vs. Cast is a pretty good one, and one that I plan on trying out if I could ever bring myself around to getting some of the LBT bullets.  I've heard that with those bullets, they get around an inch+ wide wound channel...I don't know if you could replicate that with a SP.  I guess it all comes down to whether or not you want to eat right up to the hole, or only within an inch of it to decide whether to use HP/SP/ or Cast.

~~~Cattleskinner

[Graybeard]

Some JSPs and even some JHPs are so hard that in handguns they act as solids and therefore perform pretty much like a hard cast. With any bullet that doesn't expand the meplat diameter is the determiner of tissue damage. The wider the meplat the more damage it does. Applies equally to hard cast bullets or JSPs or JHPs if they don't expand.

[JPH45]

This is a tough one, it really hangs on what the shooter is most comfortable with. I thought a bit before I waded in.

You remember right, I shot 2 deer with the 270 Gold Dot and didn't see anything I could call expansion in the wound nor the exit holes. Speer does state they designed the 44 Gold Dots to mimic cast shape and performance. I was driving those bullets at 1575 using the max charge of H110. (21 grains???)

I also shot two with a 265 grain cast that could best be described as an LBT design, a simple ogival wadcutter thats ends in a 35 caliber meplat. I was driving it at 1270 and again no expansion but they did the job on the insides and I could not tell that either bullet performed better or worse than the other.

I would try for the most velocity I could get good, reliable accuracy from. The 44 ain't going to have a lot of shock value as a killer, it is simply going to create a wound that bleeds 'em out, but it does that really well. So hit 'em as hard as you can.

As jacketed goes, and particularly hollow points I do like the XTP. I've heard nothing but good about it and seen it myself. It is the bullet for knowing you have the best in the chamber. I'm going to temper that though and say that I would find it hard to believe that any 240 or heavier bullet, soft point or hollow wouldn't get the job done. Regardless of the newcomers to the heavy handgun scene, the 44 remains the chambering that the majority of folks use day in and out, and the bullets for it probably get a lot of attention at the makers, they know the product is going to get a hard look in the field, and a look at the makers product lines suggests the 44 is a hotly persued market in both loaded ammunition and reloading components.

I think most any you choose, jacketed or cast will do the job well, the question to answer is what do you want to try out. Having stumbled on to my sizing /bore mismatches, my rifle is doing much better with cast at full velocities, so my 44 will be loaded with my 265 cast this year, but not untill after my 38-55 has been bloodied, and I've given the 357 Max a turn with a 180 grainer from that Lee group buy last year.

[De41mag]

Cattleskinner, thanks for the reply.
Bill, That was something I had heard before, the heavier bullets are very hard, so that backs up what I suspected. Thanks.
JPH; I was hoping that you would step up and give some of your insight.
Espically the boys from Alabama. So from what you fellas have said, one can either go to a JHP out of a rifle or pistol and get reasonable expanison or he could shoot a JSP or cast bullet and get the same results, little or no mushrooming but complete penetration.
Thanks for your help, my questions have been answered or at least my conclusions have been reinforced.
cattleskinner... I tried to answer your question on 2400 in 44 Special and 44 Magnum on Friday nite, but for some reason it would not let me log on. Thank You for your replys.

Dennis  

[stiff neck]

oops