Convert 357 Mag dies to 357/44 Bain & Davis?

[hornady308]

Considering the price of 357 B&D dies, I was wondering if anyone has experience converting standard 38 Special or 357 Mag dies to reload the B&D?  Is it hard to do?  Sure would be a lot cheaper!

Happy hunting.

[springer222]

http://www.grafs.com/shopRegularproducts.cfm/startItem/1

Unless you can get a die set really, really cheap, my guess is the cost of new dies + machining, will put the cost of a set of new Hornady dies very compariable to a "machined set". And several folks here claim that Midsouth will beat Graf's prices.

I can't speak about Midsouth, but I have nothing but good things to say about the folks at Graf's.

[hornady308]

I guess I should have done my homework.  I didn't think I could get a set of B&D dies for less than $90, but Grafs has them for $49.  

Paco's website has an article, "Practical Wildcats", that describes taking a set of 357 Mag dies and converting them to B&D.  He simply removed the temper from the dies, then reamed them with a .453 reamer ($5 at a local machine shop supply store), then polished the reamed sections.  The only tricky part would be putting the correct angle on the front of the reamer to cut the B&D shoulder.  Since used 357 dies are so cheap, I planned to do this myself using a drill press.  I just can't figure out the best way to shape the reamer for the shoulder.  If I could, I could still make the dies myself for around $20.

[Reed1911]

What you are proposing is a pretty detailed project and you would really need a good mill or lathe to do it right. The reamer could be used however putting the correct taper on it and the correcting the cutting surfaces is a project all of it's own, then you'll need to be sure to stay absolutely centered on the die, and be sure to run it in the correct depth so you don't put the shoulder too far forward or too far back and cause a headspace problem later on. If you are looking to get into machine work it would be a pretty good project to do, but you would probably need to use at least three die since you are likely to mess a few up. Just my opinion.

[hornady308]

I appreciate the comments regarding this project, and I suppose I'd be better off just buying the B&D dies rather than trying to make them.  It might be a fun project, but it sounds too complicated for now.

[Racepres]

I don't know the shoulder angle , but I would see if it was at least close to a 35 rem, 35 whelen, 9.3 mm whatever and cut 'er off... Also I have never fooled w/ the bain and davis , but Had a 357 / 44 that only required neck sizing (38sp.die) after fire forming (you don't have time for "how I prepared those baby's for fire forming".... Marty

[unspellable]

There are two versions of the 357-44 B&D.  For lack of knowing what else to call them I will say early and later versions.  They differ slightly in the shoulder.  The later version is some what improved over the early version as far as backing out of the chamber and tying up a revolver is concerned.  I don't think there is any practical difference in a single shot.

[skb2706]

I have purchased several sets of cheap dies for the sole purpose of modifying them to suit me. I originally did it to avoid expensive custom sets and rediculous waiting times. Typical loading dies are just case hardened....only hardened on the surface and are quite easy to machine under that first .001".  Here in my shop we even came up with methods for grinding reamers to get the correct shoulder angles. But for your purposes....shell out the fifty bucks and call it a day.

[Bug]

SKB,
 Don't mean to hijack the thread, but... Would you mind sharing how you re-hardened the dies, after machining? I also have several similar sets, and recently made a trim die, but I can't seem to get the top surface hardened to suit me. Come to think about it, this info may also be useful to hornady 308...............Thanks.

[45LCshoooter]

Yes, can anyone comment on the shoulder angle? I cannot seem to find drawings... How about a Ruger Deerfield in 357-44 B&D, would it feed reliably?

[Bug]

I'd think it would feed fine. Keep the OAL the same as the .44, it might even be better due to the taper.
Here is your ctg drawing:
http://stevespages.com/jpg/cd35744baindavis.jpg

[Steve E]

45LCshooter

A Ruger Deerfield would be a dandy and slick shooter. I have one of the orignal 44 mag Rugers in mint condition. But I did convert a Marlin 1894 to 357 B&D and boy is it a ball to shoot. I hope to take a deer with it if the Air Force ever sends us back to the Mainland. My Marlin really loves the 180gr Hornady XTP's over Lil-Gun powder, it will shoot these under an inch at 100 yds. That is on the bench with a 4x scope. I think you'll be happy with the Marlin conversion.

                                            Steve E...........

[skb2706]

bug - To tell you the truth I did not 'reharden' them at all. What I was making first was a form die. 6mm 30-30 AI out of very cheap set of .243 Win dies ( Lee RGB ). First we cut the length correct...all I really needed for that one was the neck as these had to be fireformed anyway. The next die was a size die that only required a slight bump to the shoulder and a correct shoulder angle. I made a reamer in my shop with that angle and turned the die in the lathe. This is a very tight chambered wildcat in a Contender so body sizing was not necessary.....if it was required the body can be sized with a slightly modified 7-30 Waters size die I already had. Seating die was just the bullet seater for the .243 Win. shortened. Using this sytem i have loaded many many rounds with no trouble and the gun will shoot near benchrest type groups.....I have a pic of a five shot group I shot with these loads that measures a confirmed .338"
Total cost was less than $30 and only minimal amounts of time. If I had to buy dies it was 12 weeks and over $100 to get them the way I wanted them made.