QC stink? Or am I snake bit?

[TScottO]

Is it just more or is this the norm. I have found quality control to be lacking amongst several mfgs making guns these days. It seems like every fourth or fifth gun I purchase NIB has some sort of problem.

I bought a new Kimber 22 bolt action that damages every bullet I feed from the magazine and half the time it lines up so poorly it doesn’t feed at all.

Last year I bought a SW performance center 686 38 super that would fire only 3 out of a cylinder full. Got to looking a part of the frame surrounding the firing pin was not milled enough. This unmilled hump began to chip the hard chrome off the hammer face.

Just Friday I picked up a NIB Winchester 9422 that will not fire around. The hammer strikes are so light you can wipe them off with your finger. It just stamps a slight oil outline of the firing pin on the case rim.

Other guns I’ve had problems with over the years, NIB, include:

Smith 686 357 – The sear was cut at an awful angle and made the action awful
Smith 629 – one cylinder shoots 6 inches to the left at 25 yards
Walther PPK/S – would not feed
Ruger MKII – the chamber was cut short and will not fully feed if the cartridge is slightly long
Ruger Single6 – saves lead horribly
Colt Series 80 – would not feed or eject hardball
Colt Python – The action was out of time
Colt AR15 – spring that engages the safety plunger was broken
Benilli Nova – does not fire a round about 1 out of 5 shots
FA 97 22 – after about 15 shots the firing pin broke

The factory or dealer has made all of the guns right at no cost to me but I still find this unacceptable.

Am I just snake bit or do others experience this sort of thing.

Be Safe,
Scott

[Redhawk1]

You sound snake bit. I have not had any problems with any guns I buy. I  have over 30 guns and not one bad one in the bunch.  

[De41mag]

TScottO;

Your not alone, I feel the same. The QC in firearms seems to be getting worse. That is why I just bought a Freedom Arms Model 1997. I figured that if you get what you pay for then this gun should be perfect. And by George it is! And I'm gonna get another one. Probably in 41 Magnum.
I have just got fed up with the crap that is floating around now.
It seems especially true in the Ruger line-up. Since Bill passed away, I think things have took a turn for the worse for that company. Yea, and Smith and Wesson seem to be following suit.

Dennis  

[HouseofCash]

I have heard 95% of the people that shoot S&W and Ruger love them. About 75% with "higher end" taurus love them. And at the min. 90% of people that shoot Glock, SF, Kimber, SIG and H&K love them.

I have had trouble with ROSSI and will never buy another one. And I broke the first Desert Eagle I ever owned in .357 mag. . I sold the DE. To bad, Im yet to find another one in .357 mag. . I think there getting harder to find in .357.

I have had great luck with all my Kimbers, DEs, SFs and my .44mag taurus "raging bull" in 8 3/8 bbl. As far as my Glock and Blackhawk Hunter, I have not owned them long anuff to call it yet.

I'm not testing you at all, but did you buy them all from the same place? Maybe it is the shop were your buying?

                                          Dave.

[myronman3]

I have just got fed up with the crap that is floating around now.

i couldnt have said it better.   i know that sometimes things break, but i get really chaffed when it comes new and isnt right.  or when three examples of the same problem in three different guns of the exact same make.  but what really soured me is the way no-one wanted to talk with me at ruger.  they have one gal-donna- that should be promoted to customer service department head.   she understands people and how to make them happy.   the rest of the half wits they have over there arent worth beans.  

house of cash wrote...

I have heard 95% of the people that shoot S&W and Ruger love them. About 75% with "higher end" taurus love them. And at the min. 90% of people that shoot Glock, SF, Kimber, SIG and H&K love them.

i will submit that the vast majority of folks own those guns, and dont shoot them to the extent that some of us do.   the average person i will bet doesnt put more than two boxes of bullets a year down their barrel.    in fact,  my money says that if 1/4 of the super blackhawk owners would put 500 rounds down their barrels in a year,  ruger would have to pull the entire line.    

  if i were in the market for a superblackhawk, i would hold out for an old model.  over the weekend i handled one and noticed the difference in quality between it and the new models.   all i can say is that the difference is appalling.

[TScottO]

Houseofcash,

My gun purchases have been from various dealers in a few different states. I’m not sure what the deal is but I’d like to think I’m not the only one with the problem.

Myronman3,

There was a study done a few years ago by the firearms industry. This study was to determine the amount of use the average gun gets. I do not remember the figures exactly but the best I recall the average gun only gets about 700 rounds put through it during its lifetime. This figures included the guy who buys a gun and never shoots all the way up to regular competition shooters putting thousands upon thousands of rounds through a gun per year. I hope the purpose of this survey was not to determine if gun mfgs were over building guns. However I don’t think they would fund a study and not use the information somehow.

Take Care,
Scott

[HouseofCash]

I would say that the avg. of 700 rounds sounds about right. I have a grandfather who has not shot any of his guns in 35 years, probably didnt shoot them once or twice to begin with. My friends and I at the range indoor and out door and my Father and I put 500+ rounds though are guns a year.

I am a new "Super Blackhawk Hunter" owner, so, I hate to think I wasted my money. I bought it because it looked like a great hunting rev. and I did not own one. I just looked at a hole bunch of guns and that one just looked like a well built firearm. The frame just looks so solid and feels good in my hands. Out of all them I looked at that one looked like the best in the bunch. !!BUT!!, Like I said I have only put 50 rounds though it and probably will not shoot that gun much. In MHO if you want to talk to some one about the Ruger line talk to "REDHAWK1". He sounds to me like a avid Ruger collector and shooter.

*NOTE* There is one other hand gun that looked better built then the "SBHH". That would be the S&W500 .500MAG. . Now that looked to me like a well built tank.

                                              Just MHO, no really hard facts here, just what I have seen in the gun would though my eyes.
                                                          Dave.

[slayer]

I am glad I read this, I was going to buy a Super Blackhawk this year, I have 2nd thoughts now. Whaen I buy a gun, I expect an almost flawless peice. I have owned several Remington 700`s in .270 and all were flawless and all were tack drivers. I am now out of high powered rifles now, except in .45/70 single shots. Jack.

[LJ Barrero]

One thing that I've noticed lately, the shops where I do buy or trade my guns does no longer give you a good trade value for your gun.  They sell it very high (almost MSRP) but they will give you 40% (used to be 60%) on your trade.

I too purchased the Ruger SBHH, 44 mag model and the cylinder and the base pin seem just a little slappy.  Anyway, yesterday I made may best group with it (0.9") at 30 yards with a Leupold 2x scope.  This is better than my S&W 629 so far.  I love this gun and I will be changing the the base pin some time soon.  Before having this single action revolver, I always over looked them in the past.  The hunter model is great because you can take the scope in and out anf the set of iron sights are there already.

I too been reading Greybeard's advice on the Freedom Arms and I do like the .454 Casull with the 7.5" bbl.  Perhaps one day.

LJB

[HouseofCash]

Slayer:
      There are only a small amount of people that have had trouble with there Blackhawks. If I was you I would go and get a few more opinions, maybe even shoot a few for your self.

                                            Dave.

[New Hampshire]

I guess some guys just get rotten luck and persist in getting the "defects".  I am a shooter.  Even though I do not own what I consider many guns they do get shot.  Out of the box I have never had a problem with ANY of them.  On the other hand sometimes a gun just dont fit a shooter very well.  My Uncle is friends with a guy who buys, sells and trades guns regularly.  One day we were at his range not too long after he bought a new Ruger 345.  He was having problems with the gun hitting way low and to the right at about 15-20 yards.  For giggles he let me try it and I found it hitting DEAD on for me.  He shoots pistols regularly, so it was not his technique, per se.  I cant say for sure, but I dont believe he has too many problem guns right out of the box.  So maybe the gun gods just look down and laugh at certain people  :wink: .
Brian M.

[myronman3]

Slayer:
      There are only a small amount of people that have had trouble with there Blackhawks. If I was you I would go and get a few more opinions, maybe even shoot a few for your self.

                                            Dave.

there is more than you think, and that's all i have to say about that.  

slayer:  were i you i would look for an old three screw.  the one i handled was heads and shoulders about any recent manufactuer gun i have put my hands on.   just carry it with an empty cylinder under the hammer.

[HouseofCash]

Sometimes, and I mean sometimes and I would hope to say only in a small percent of the pistol shooters, I think people push the gun to far and use it harder then it was intended. I do not think every NIB gun or every gun for that matter was made to be pushed to the limits. Although there are guns out there that are made to be pushed hard, some just are not. And I think people get a "bad" gun or a gun there not happy with because they push it like it was a 1400.00 Kimber. When really it is a 300.00 KEL-TEC.

Now Im not saying any one here does that, but, I think people with less knowledge do.

[Jamie45]

HouseofCash you have a good point in general, but the original post has a lot of rimfires and it’s pretty hard to meddle with those.  And I don’t think too many people reload for 380 or 223 anymore.  They are a hassle (380) and it’s cheaper to use surplus stuff (223).  Now, if you are talking heavy revolvers, my first question would definitely be what are you feeding it?
I am really really afraid we are just gonna have to set this boy up for an exorcism cause he has got himself a gun-devil!!   :twisted:

[unspellable]

I'm firmly in the "I'm tired of pulling crap out of the box!" camp.  How hard the piece is or will be used is irrelevant when it comes out of the box unfit to be used.  And I have a long laundry list of'em, several different makes including S&W, Colt, Browning, Ruger, Taurus, ATM, et al.  And I'm not being a finicky they all gotta shoot one hole at 200 yards type either.  But is it so much to ask that they go bang and do so with out shedding pieces, scraping the finish off, shaving lead badly, etc?

[Bullseye]

I have been in the mood to buy a new gun lately but have not.  It seems that way to high a pecentage of what I have boughten new lately has had problems.  Most recently was a Marlin that jammed which should not have surprised me because many folks on the old Marlin Forum was haveing problems with the 41 Mags.  Not just that they have had problems, but I only buy guns with wood stocks and many of those leave a lot to be desired anymore.  Fit and finish is going downhill also in my opinion.

[TScottO]

I carried the Winchester 9422 back to the dealer today to send it off for repair. During our conversations I asked him what percentage of guns he gets back in returns due to poor QC. He said about one in 25 guns are returned because of some type of malfunction. I guess I’m snake bit. One in 25 would be 4% returns on NIB firearms. I wonder how many with in that 25 have a problem and people send it back themselves or either just stick it in the closet. Since some people take care of it themselves etc. I’m guessing maybe 7-9% have problems NIB. Add this with the problems that come around after 500 or 1000 rounds and it really begins to stink.

In response to Houseofcash, I know of many people that self inflict damage to their firearms due to some stupid reason or another. Running them past their limits, pressure wise, is probably one of the biggest. I come from the train of thought, if you want more boom buy a bigger caliber.

Take Care,
Scott

[myronman3]

...I think people push the gun to far and use it harder then it was intended. ...

i think it is fishy that comment followed my post.   just to clarify (once more)  the loads i shot were pretty much mid range loads.   now i know you just got a new gun that you are exicited about.  i think that is great.  i aint sitting here telling you it is junk.  my whole point is that it did happen, and to inform others about the problem; so if they start having the same symptoms,  they know what to expect.  and hopefully stop and have their gun checked out and avoid anyone getting hurt.  
   you never met a bigger ruger fan than i was.  just ask some of the guys who have been around awhile; or look it up yourself.    i am more disapointed in ruger's lack of interest in getting to the bottom of the matter than anything.   do i still own rugers?  yep.  will i buy another?  maybe.    but it wont be for a while anyway.  i still have some cooling off to do.    
   i am glad you are enjoying your gun, and hope you never have to pick up your baby in pieces because it flies apart after you shoot it.   it is a bad feeling.   one i got to experience three times.    and i dont wish it on anyone.    if you want to discuss this any further,  look me up after you get 1000 rounds through the gun.     beware if it starts shifting left!!!!  until then,   happy shooting.

[HouseofCash]

i think it is fishy that comment followed my post.

myronman3 I would never test your judgement on your life experiences, nor would I single you out like that. I am not that type of guy.

After 1249 posts, many years in the gun world, many more guns they I have owned touched or shot, I would never test you. I take your posts with true thought and have looked at my gun every round I put though it since I have(and yes I have)read your posts on it. I have even called Ruger tec. line and talked to smiths about it even the place were I bought the gun has got a phone call from me. I have taken what you said very real. BTW, thank you for the heads up.

...think people push the gun to far and use it harder then it was intended. ...

When I said that I had a friend of mine in mind. One who only buys lower end guns. I used the name kel-tec in that post because thats what he had the day we were out and at the range.

Picture this. He was tring to rapid fire and shoot at 79 feet with this P11 DOA 9MM 3"inch bll Kel-Tec. He would rapid fire it as hard as he could and would not hit a damn thing at 35 feet, plus he would jam one every mag. . He would slow fire and not hit a damn thing at 79 feet. At the end he was mad as hell when we left and thought his gun should have shot like mine. I was using a Kimber TLE custom and a Springfield TRP custom, my two best shooters. Now as we all know there is a hugh difference in thoughs two guns !!!!HUGH!!!!

The Kel-tec my be a great side arm for a glove box or a ladys bag. Maybe even a good side arm for a side arm if you were a under cover DET. . But, that is what I mean when I said that. That is all that I was thinking at the time.

Now. Do I thing your as stupid as my friend about guns NO, NOT AT ALL. Sorry you took it the wrong why.

beware if it starts shifting left!!!!

Can you please explain more in detail? Also did you have a HUNTER or just a SBH? They do have different bbl right. Do you think the HUNTER would have the same problems, or no do to the different bll?

                                      Thanks.
                                             Dave.

[sawfish]

I think everybody shares the frustration of having the excitement of a new gun spoiled by poor QC.  When I am looking for a new gun, I do not go to the Super Low Down Discount Store.  I go to my gunsmith, whom I have traded with for over twenty years.  Yes, he charges a little more than Super Low, but as a regular practice, he disassembles, cleans, and tests the function of ALL new and used guns he sells.  If you have a problem, the gun is either repaired, replaced, or he will refund your money.  I have never had to ask him for a refund.  

I encourage everyone to find this type of gunshop in your area.  It will probably take some looking, but it is well worth your time.  In these times of changing companies/ownerships, etc., your local smith probably has more expertise than the trade school guy working at the factory.   Just MHO.

[Golsovia]

My first guns were some of the most problematic. They were single shot Ithaca shotguns I bought over 30 years ago. I went through two or three before settling for a Savage. Then later, I wasn't happy with the quality (inletting) on a Marlin 22, but you get what you pay for and, in the 70s anyway, one wasn't paying much for decent inletting when you bought a Marlin. I had a Winchester M70 in 222 which wouldn't eject its cases reliably even after a trip back to the factory. I can't think of much since that time that has been problematic- no Rugers I know of. A recent BFR was not timed correctly but that's a warranty issue that I can get corrected. Overall not a lot of problems, certainly not a more prevalent problem not, I don't think than ten or twenty, or thirty years ago.