LOCKED AGAIN.

[powderman]

Was a good discussion of a real problem in many areas of the United States of America. I'm getting tired of appologizing when I've done nothing wrong, just stating the facts. I saw no reason to lock that thread. If some of you have a problem faceing reality, move to the country, you'll see what stray dogs and especially cats do to the wildlife in your area if allowed to do so. I'll take a break from this board, not sure whats safe to talk about. POWDERMAN.  :?  :?  :?  :?  :?  :?  :?  :?  :?  :?  :?  :?  :?  :?  :?

[Graybeard]

I locked the thread because once again folks cannot avoid jumping into discussions of illegal activities. While my sympathies lie with those folks the activities are ILLEGAL. My personal feelings aside my contract with the server host states I MUST NOT allow discussion of illegal actions. So yeah if you find a problem with me stopping things that can and might get this entire site kicked off the internet you might should take a break from GBO.

If you feel your need to discuss doing things which are illegal is more important than the site being here for discussion of other topics then you definitely are in the wrong place. I might suggest a place for you where no one cares if the topic is legal or illegal and they are as antil American as can be. After all it's hosted in Dubia and run by a raghead who hates the US.

So if you feel you must discuss things which are illegal then bye. As I've often commented I do agree with doing what was discussed but it's illegal. If you've just got to do it then do it but don't discuss it. Why folks feel they must come on a public forum and brag about doing illegal things is beyond me. You are NOT gonna do it here.

The decision by an individual that a law is unjust is a personal one. It is in my opinion and the opinion of the founders of this great nation that it is a GOD given right to protest and even ignore illegal laws. I suppose those that make no sense also fall into this category. I feel shooting feral cats on your property fits nicely into the latter. But as with anything you do that is against the law it should be done in private and kept that way.

[jh45gun]

Well I posted these as legitimate articles that were taken off the web and I guess we all know what we can or cannot say about the issue due to the narrow minded veiws of the web host that GB has. I posted these as news articles not to get folks reved up again on the issue but to show how the issue is going, so sorry about that GB. It is kinda astonishing that you cannot say I Kill !@#$@!#$@# or would kill @ER@#$@# on the net yet Porn on OTHER sites is no problem. I wonder if GB's Web host has other sites with Porn on it and thinks thats ok? Jim

[FWiedner]

I'd have to discuss that issue of such activity being illegal.

As an argument:

Texas Penal Code

TITLE 9. OFFENSES AGAINST PUBLIC ORDER AND DECENCY

CHAPTER 42. DISORDERLY CONDUCT AND RELATED OFFENSES

§42.09. Cruelty to animals.

(a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally or knowingly:

(5) kills, seriously injures, or administers poison to an animal, other than cattle, horses, sheep, swine, or goats, belonging to another without legal authority or the owner's effective consent

(e) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsection (a)(5) that the animal was discovered on the person's property in the act of or immediately after injuring or killing the person's goats, sheep, cattle, horses, swine, or poultry and that person killed or injured the animal at the time of this discovery.

(g) It is a defense to prosecution for an offense under this section that the person had a reasonable fear of bodily injury to the person or to another by a dangerous wild animal as defined by Section 822.101, Health and Safety Code.

(h) It is an exception to the application of this section that the conduct engaged in by the actor is a generally accepted and otherwise lawful:

(1) use of an animal if that use occurs solely for the purpose of:

(A) fishing, hunting, or trapping; or
(B) wildlife control as regulated by state and federal law; or

(2) animal husbandry or farming practice involving livestock.

(i) An offense under Subsection (a)(1), (5), (6), (7), or (8 ) is a state jail felony, except that the offense is a felony of the third degree if the person has previously been convicted two times under this section.

-----

I only included the parts of the PC that I thought were applicable in this discussion.

ItÂ’s not against the law to eliminate pest animals if the action can be demonstrated to be in compliance with the law.  If you can't show you had a legal reason, you've got a problem you don't want.

One of the standards for maintaining “domestic” animals is ensuring that they are fed and or cared for on a regular basis.  Therefore, if you feed deer, hogs, squirrels, or birds they are “domesticated”  They are “pets” and or "livestock".

If you have a game management program, same applies.

I believe that it can be demonstrated that shooting stray dogs running deer, or cats harassing birds is found to be an exception under the laws protecting livestock and pets.  I believe that it can also be demonstrated that stray dogs and cats present notable health and safety concerns, as evidenced by programs in many communities to round them up and destroy them at taxpayer expense.

 

[Robert]

Bad Boys, Bad Boys, whatcha gonna do, Whatcha gonna do when they come for you?
  Had the same problem as moderator on another forum.  And all I did was ask the guy to be a little more considerate for the women on the forum who don't particularly agree with such things.  The guy got all in a huff....threw out a few adjectives and left.  No great loss.  Graybeard is not judging ANYONE....he just asked to refrain from conversations in 'BAD TASTE'....that is only common sense.  Be polite.
  Let's get real...some boys never grow up.  90% of the 'Feral cats' that men talk about, are in fact the Kid-next-door's kitty cat.  I know it...you know it.  Big tough guys....the Great White Hunters....probably  drunks and wife-beaters  too.  If anyone here takes offence...then this PROBABLY FITS YOU.  The others on this forum know what is going on, and don't really want to hear about it.
  Now on the other hand...I keep chickens, and I sometimes have to deal with various varmints...usually in the spring before the 'food chain' gets into full swing in the adjacent woods.  If they leave me alone and don't eat my birds...I leave them alone.  When bounaries get crossed and they lose fear of 'Man'....then I have to start patroling in the morning.  I personally don't usually have problems with domestic cats...it has been many, many years.  As a matter of fact....I would welcome them.  Rodents spread way more disease than cats, feral or not...so THAT arguement is out the window. (sorry about the long post)

[FWiedner]

Robert;

Once again you are mistaken.

I MUST NOT allow discussion of illegal actions

...he just asked to refrain from conversations in 'BAD TASTE'

In fact, as I review Mr. Graybeard's post, I don't see a single mention of good or bad taste.  As far as that goes, I don't recall seeing even a single post in any of the several threads that might be considered to be in bad taste, except for your last:

Big tough guys....the Great White Hunters....probably drunks and wife-beaters too. If anyone here takes offence...then this PROBABLY FITS YOU.

In knowing that you are both addressing and speaking to members of the forum on the topic of discussion, rather than actually contribute anything to the discussion you feel it necessary to resort to name calling and insults.

Is it just that anything you don't personally agree with is in "bad taste"?

I believe that the discussion was, and is, about laws concerning the management of feral animals, with the exception of this thread which is ostensibly about why previous subject discussions could not be continued.

 :roll:

[Dubious Dan]

  Let's get real...some boys never grow up.  90% of the 'Feral cats' that men talk about, are in fact the Kid-next-door's kitty cat.  I know it...you know it.  Big tough guys....the Great White Hunters....probably  drunks and wife-beaters  too.  If anyone here takes offence...then this PROBABLY FITS YOU.  The others on this forum know what is going on, and don't really want to hear about it.

Well...I don't drink, don't hit my wife and have never shot a cat but I find your comments OFFENSIVE and in BAD TASTE.

As far as GB's comments go, it's his forum and he has the right and final say as to what is allowed here and has to follow the TOS of the server that hosts it.

[Robert]

So Mr Weidner..are you on a pilgrimage to slam ME because I have not agreed with YOUR politics and/or Bush-Bashing?  Yes I am well aware that G.B. said he  Cannot allow discussion of illegal actions.  You are talking semantics....I was generalizing when I said 'bad taste'....there are many things that I don't think should be discussed here that could be considered 'bad taste'....hunting deer with 50 BMG....hunting humans, kitty cats..porn, etc  ...It is all just common courtesy.
  You know what buddy?  I really do not like you much more than you like me....but I have left you and your politics alone, I suggest you get off MY back also.
  I meant what I said in my post.  If you guys are offended, then the shoe must truely fit.  I DID NOT CALL ANYONE ANY NAMES.  Please show me where I did.  I DID however express my disdain for the type of person that just kills helpless animals for the sake of killing for fun.  I DID NOT single ANY person out and call them names.  If you want to have more personal arguements , I suggest you take it off the public board, and Private Message me.  Otherwise, I would appreciate if you get off my back and I will do the same.  This thread IS about 'things in bad taste'...and it is apparently having a snowball effect.

[FWiedner]

Robert:

The only "slam" I have directed at you is to state that you are incorrect in your interpretation of the subject.  Many discussions on any given subject involve disagreement.  Don't make it personal.  This thread isn't about YOU.

The fact that I disagree with you doesn't mean that I am on any sort of religious quest to see you done-out in the court of public opinion.

By the way, where in any post that I have made in this thread has any mention been made of any political opinon of mine, or of President Bush?

At least two persons have quoted your disdainful remarks toward those forum members with whom you disagree on whatever subject you seem to think this thread is about.

You've made it clear that you feel that discussions about disposal of feral animals are in bad taste, but Mr. Graybeard stated that he can't have discussions of illegal activities.  There is a difference, whether it exists in your mind or not.  You obviously do not feel that it is as serious an issue as some others do.

I contacted the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department and asked about the policies concernng feral animals.  I was informed that the subject is covered in the Texas Penal Code because it directly concerns domestic animals.  I posted what I felt were the applicable portions of the Texas Penal Code to demonstrate that there are occassions where the law supports elimination as a management technique when it is utilized according to those conditions outlined in the Texas Penal Code.

Within those boundaries the activity is legal.

Wisconsin is proposing legislation to address a similar issue within their state.  Why can't it be discussed?  They are proposing the legal guidelines for engaging in a proposed legal activity.

Is it illegal until it's legal?  Is it subversive to discuss proposed laws?  Maybe that's how the Patriot Act got passed.  (There's your political statement).

What exactly is in such bad taste or is illegal about forum members duscussing their opinions on the subject?

 :?

[Dali Llama]

So Mr Weidner..are you on a pilgrimage to slam ME because I have not agreed with YOUR politics and/or Bush-Bashing?  

:eek:  :eek:  :eek:

[Greybeard]

I understood what Robert meant. Suspect we all did.

In fact no my host company does not allow porn. It will also get your site jerked off the internet. The company I use is either the largest or second largest in the US. All of their servers are located in the US, some in TX and some in CA as I understand it. There might be other states also.


Their rules are similar to the rules of most but not all server hosts. Do they check on the sites they host? Yup sure do. How often I'm not sure. BUT if when they check they find porn or that discussions of illegal actions are being condoned on the site ZAP it's history and believe me when you pay as much money to have a site hosted as I do you do not want to lose that money just to allow someone to discuss things that are illegal at least in most states.

I really care not what you do in private. I just care what you discuss on this website in public. Discussing a news article on a new law to allow the shooting of cats is fine. Later in the discussion folks starting to say to heck with it they are gonna do it is NOT. I care not if you shoot cats or dogs or whatever. I do care if you come here to tell us about it. If you robbed a bank would you want to come here and brag about that too?

[jh45gun]

GB I Know where your coming from and that is why I posted these as news articles figured that would be ok. I even warned in one post after the ones that were locked not to discuss the actual killing of cats. Since you tend to agree I figured it would be ok to post. I made the porn comment as I know it is not allowed here but you see it other places even as pop ups so I just wondered what your server had to say about that. Jim

[powderman]

I was not aware that I'd broken any laws in KY, maybe I have, I don't know. I know the law can't be counted on for help, I mean our local animal control people. They have always said, you catch em, tie em up, I might get time to drop by, if I'm not too busy. In any event, I do NOT advocate breaking the law. I never bragged about anything, just stated the facts, and showed what works around here.
ROBERT. Great white hunters? Drunks? Wife beaters? No sir, that doesn't fit me, or anyone around here that I know of at all, and I do resent your implications.
If I had the facilities and funds I'd raise some quail to turn loose and see if they can survive once again. I haven't seen a quail in at least 10 years, but I did hear one a couple of years ago. I've lived here 23 years and have always tried to help our wildlife, when I first moved here the feral catswere rampant. When I raised corn I always ran the disc around the edge of the patch so the critters would have plenty of food. The feral cats are predators, no more, no less. I'm glad that some states are beginning to take measures to legally control this problem. POWDERMAN.  :?  :?  :?  :?  :?  :?  :?  :?  :?  :?  :?  :?  :?  :?  :?

[big medicine]

Since all this discussion I have called the State Game and Parks to find out what the law is here in NE. I have called twice and been told they would call me back. Guess what, they have not called back, and they couldnt answer my question. I will keep trying to get an answer to find out what the law is.

as far as the comment about it being the kid next doors kitty, and we all know it. If you live in town, I would bet it belongs to someone. Someone who should be guilty of a crime for not taking care of their animals. Letting an animal run free is negligent. But I have been in the field, out where the hoot owls and chickens frolic miles from any dweling and have seen wild cats and dogs.

I see the problems of strays first hand all to often. People that get bitten by stray dogs or cats. They dogs are usually a lot easer to find than the cats. Did ya ever have to see a kid get rabies shots? Have you ever had to give a kid rabies shots? Well I have. Because we couldnt find the animal. Do you know what happens to the animals we do find? The get taken in to the vets office and the animal is euthanized. It's head is sent in to a lab for testing. If it is positive for rabies, the person gets shots, if not they are lucky.

It boils down to being responsible. If you own an animal it should be at the end of a leash, in your house, or in a kennel. Not out roaming. Not discussing the problem is not going to make it go away. And if the state is going to have a law that says you can't take care of a problem, then they NEED to take care of the problem.

Just last week my kids got chased into the house by a stray dog. They are 4 and 6 and the dog was a mixed breed brown husky looking dog with the curled tail probably about 70 pounds. Big enough to kill a kid. Just who is responsible to protect my kids? Whos is responsible if some thing happens to my kids? You can bet that who ever owns the dog is not going to step up to the plate and claim the dog if some thing was to happen to one of my kids, but yet if I did some thing to the dog I would be the biggest drunk, wife beating SOB there is. It is pretty sad when your kids cant even play in their own yard with out fear.

[Graybeard]

Here in Bama where I live the issue of dogs and cats is quite different. If you have a vicious dog most police agencies will condone shooting it. Yet it is still against the law to do so and you can be and most likely WILL BE taken to task for it in a civil lawsuit. Your only recourse then is a counter suit on the grounds the animal was a danger. Very mixed up system in my opinion.

But a cat? No way anyone is gonna agree with you on shooting one. Not the police or the judge if you're sued in civil court. I think the law that is designed to prevent cruelty to the animals you own is being abused grossly in not allowing you to protect your home from strays or from those owned by someone but being allowed to run loose.

I'm a firm believer is doing what's necessary to deal with any given situation you face. And then keeping your mouth shut about havingn done it.

Sure I believe the laws should be changed but until they are I just don't want discussions recommending folks do illegal things here.

[big medicine]

GB,
I would protect my kids no matter what the law is. I chased the dog off and called the law. I some times think that people that live in cities really have no clue what it is like in rural America. We dont have animal control in our county. We have 3 law enforcement officers to cover 400 sq miles of the county 24/7/365. I remember a couple years ago there was a stray dog that about took me in my driveway. I came back in and called 911. The deputy was at the other end of the county, it took him almost 40 minutes to get here. NO fault to him, that is just the way it is here. They finally caught the dog a few nights later, after a lot of calls from different people in town.

One of the things that I get frustrated with is the damage caused by stray cats. My front porch is NOT a litter box! There are times you go out in the morning and all you can smell is cat pi$$. When we first moved here my Dodge truck was brand new, I have scratches down the hood from some ones cat where it jumped from the roof or slid down the windshield and then slid along the hood leaving marks the whole way. I didnt have the $250 deductable at the time to get it fixed. They get into the trash and tear it up. My back screen to the sliding glass door was used by some cat to sharpen it's claws or what ever they do. We have to keep the kids sand box covered as not to become a litter box and the list goes on and on. I dont even own a cat! Some thing needs to be done. I should have some recourse to collect damages from some one, be it the kid next door or granny up the street. They should have collars on them so I can catch them in live traps and then call the owner and say you owe me $250 so I can pay the deductable to get the scratches down my hood fixed. Or call the owner to come pick up all the trash that got scattered all over. Or come wash my porch off and get rid of the smell, or pay to get my screen replaced. Or pay for the Dr visits and meds to get my kids de- wormed For some reason these people are against taking that kind of responsibility for their animals. They just feel it is right for others to put up with it.

Just for the record: I want it noted that I'm not advocating blasting cats. But rather trying to point out problems caused by strays, and any animal not on a leash, in a kennal in you house is a stray!

[Sourdough]

When I lived in Anchorage, my next door neighbor had a very vicious dog.  Animal Control had delt with this animal three times, and refused to deal with it again.  The local police would not deal with it, they were also afraid of the animal.  (Half Pit Bull, half Lab).  As I left the police station, a uniformed patrolman was waiting for me outside.  He discreetly told me about the three Ss.  Need I say more?

[Haywire Haywood]

Several of the neighbor's dogs get together and run the area.  It's an everyday occurance.  I have picked up trash where they have dumped my can.  I've never caught them in the act of dumping it tho, always see them sniffing around after it's down.  We did have a cat that came to the back porch for a couple months after we moved in, I think the previous owners were feeding a couple strays.  He eventually got tired of getting chased off and didn't come back.

Ian

[jh45gun]

Call me confused fella's but I guess I never heard this three sss you guys are talking about or at least on abreviated so what does that mean then after I find out I can say duh :oops:

[Dubious Dan]

Call me confused fella's but I guess I never heard this three sss you guys are talking about or at least on abreviated so what does that mean then after I find out I can say duh :oops:

I don't know what it means either but I decided to wait for you to ask so I wouldn't look foolish.

[powderman]

JH45GUN. I wasn't gonna ask either, glad you did. Educate me. POWDERMAN.    

[Curtis]

SSS was defined in one of the threads that was locked or deleted, I believe.  The last S is for "shut up" and that is your clue to what the previous two Ss are.

Curtis

[big medicine]

The SSS stands for shoot em, shovel em, shut up. The first time I heard this term was several years ago in wyoming from an old rancher in regards to the wolfs.

again for the record for the web hoster: This is not advocating anything illegal, just a clarifation of an abbreviation.

[jh45gun]

Thankyou for the explanation that would cover lots of species.      

[ShadowMover]

Thankyou for the explanation that would cover lots of species.      

This very topic was covered in Ross' book "Unintended Consequences". :wink:

[powderman]

BIG MEDICINE. Thank you Sir, you speak from experience, as have I. I always thought that SSS meant, see sallys shorts. I'm going to check into the laws here in KY, and write my congress critters regarding feral cats and dogs. POWDERMAN.        

[Graybeard]

Totally agree BM, when humans are in danger you shoot first and ask question later. Self defense is the first order of business. I also agree cats are a major pain when allowed to run loose. They need to be controlled. I do not agree with the laws protecting them but the laws do exist. Thus the three S's with the primary emphasis as far as the public is concerned being the last S.

We all do what we have to when faced with difficult decisions regardless of laws made by man. But if one steps over the bounds of them that last S of shut up is so very important.

[Qtip]

When I first moved to this area about 33 yrs. ago there were still lots of small family farms (not anymore!). Every farmer had cats to keep down rodents. Funny thing is is that we had lots of rabbits and partridge then too. Now I don't see as many cats because small farms are almost gone, but rabbits have been low for quite a while and partridge are scarce. State says it's loss of habitat (BS!). Lots of coyotes though, and they like cats too. So hunting in general is not as good as it used to be around here. Sucks.

Qtip
Soli Deo Gloria!
To God Alone Be The Glory!