blackhawk 30. carbine hunting limitations ?

[superdown]

:-D  hi everyone i am new to this forum  and need some advice  on the limitations of the 30. carbine blackhawk 7.5 in bbl there is lot of folks arond these parts that think a 357 mag is enough for deer  and i just picked up a marlin mod 62 levermatic in 30. carbine. thanx, superdown

[Redhawk1]

:-D  hi everyone i am new to this forum  and need some advice  on the limitations of the 30. carbine blackhawk 7.5 in bbl there is lot of folks arond these parts that think a 357 mag is enough for deer  and i just picked up a marlin mod 62 levermatic in 30. carbine. thanx, superdown

The .357 MAG and the .30 carbine are about equal ballistically.  You should be able to do fine with it with the proper bullet. But the .357 has a very good bullet selection for hunting deer size game.

[Jamie45]

I have an M1 Carbine that I really like, for no real particular reason other than I enjoy shooting it.  However, everything I have read seems to agree that it is too light for deer, unless maybe the really small guys down South at close range.  I would have to disagree that it’s power level is on par with the .357, another favorite of mine.  The carbine only has a 110 gr bullet which maxes out at a bit under 2,000 fps.  The .357 in a lever gun can put out a 140 gr bullet at about the same speed, or a 110 grain that is about 450 fps faster.

When you chamber it in a handgun, that .30 carbine velocity drops to about 1400 fps.  That ain’t much oomph, pardner!  I think you would be hard pressed to make a sporting kill with that little power, even with a well placed close range shot.

I don’t think either one of these are optimal hunting tools, except for the very experienced hunter.  If you are new to the hunting game, you would probably be better served by something a bit more powerful.  If you want a light deer gun, consider the 30-30 in a lever gun. The only reason it is still around is because it has worked for a lot of people for an awfully long time.  Then see if you can find a Blackhawk in .41 or .44 mag.

Good Huntin’!

[Lloyd Smale]

my first deer rifle was a .30 carbine. I killed probably a dozen deer with it. It will kill a deer but ive got to say that not a one of them dropped on the spot. If i were you id be looking for something more substaintail to hunt with. Its different using a rifle because its all you have then doing it as a stunt.

[Redhawk1]

I don't disagree that there are better choices. Such as the 41 MAG or 44 MAG or even a 30-30, But he was asking about the .30 carbine and the 357 MAG.

Jamie45, I think you might want to get back in your reloading books. The .357 MAG is about 1300 fps with a 140 gr. bullet with actually less energy then the .30 carbine. And even less with a 110 gr. bullet

Here are some numbers for you and then tell me you disagree.
.30 Carbine at 50 yards has a felicity of 1576 fps & 606 Energy ft-lbs
.357 MAG at 50 yards has a velocity of 1166 fps & 332 Energy ft-lbs

Now at 100 yards the .30 carbine with a 110 gr. bullet still out performs the .357MAG with  a 140 gr. bullet.
.30 Carbine at 100 yards has a velocity of 1366 fps & 455 Energy ft-lbs
.357 MAG at 100 yards has a velocity of 1063 fps & 276 Energy ft-lbs

The .30 Carbine has more knock down power at 150 yards with a 110 gr bullet then the .357 Mag has at 50 yards with a 140 gr. bullet.
.30 Carbine energy at 150 yards 349 ft-lbs .357 energy at 50 yards 332 ft-lbs

Here is a web-site you can go to and all you have to do is put the bullet information in as speed and it will give you all the information you need.
http://www.eskimo.com/~jbm/ballistics/traj/traj.html

[Jerry Lester]

Having shot both side by side, I can honestly say that the 30 carbine(in a revolver) falls way short of the 357 magnum in actual killing potential.

The 30 carbine uses .308 caliber rifle bullets designed to give controlled expansion at around 1800-2000 fps. These bullets(SPs) act like FMJ bullets at revolver velocities, and even the HPs are too tough for good expansion.

The 357 magnum of course uses .357 caliber bullets that are designed for revolver velocities. The 357 magnum in a 5.5" or longer barrel will push a 158g bullet to 1300 fps safely(with the right powders).

For what it's worth, as far as keeping the contest fair, you need to compare both rounds from a rifle. The 30 carbine in most rifles will average around 1900 fps with 110g bullets. In a Marlin 1894C, the 357 magnum can reach safely about 1800-1900 fps with 158g bullets, and can easily push 140g bullets past 2000 fps.

[Redhawk1]

Having shot both side by side, I can honestly say that the 30 carbine(in a revolver) falls way short of the 357 magnum in actual killing potential.

The 30 carbine uses .308 caliber rifle bullets designed to give controlled expansion at around 1800-2000 fps. These bullets(SPs) act like FMJ bullets at revolver velocities, and even the HPs are too tough for good expansion.

The 357 magnum of course uses .357 caliber bullets that are designed for revolver velocities. The 357 magnum in a 5.5" or longer barrel will push a 158g bullet to 1300 fps safely(with the right powders).

For what it's worth, as far as keeping the contest fair, you need to compare both rounds from a rifle. The 30 carbine in most rifles will average around 1900 fps with 110g bullets. In a Marlin 1894C, the 357 magnum can reach safely about 1800-1900 fps with 158g bullets, and can easily push 140g bullets past 2000 fps.

OK, if you want to be fair compare a 110 gr. bullet to a 110 gr. bullet. And you will find the .30 carbine will out perform the .357 MAG.
But like I said, I would choose something else, but it will work.

Me personally, I would not use either for deer hunting. I like bigger bore and harder hitting handguns or rifles. My .30 carbine is a tin can plinker and fox getter. When pistol deer hunting, no less then a 44MAG for me. Just my personal preference.  

[superdown]

:eek: thanx for the info everyone i hope to hear more on the hunting capabilities of the 30.carbine if anyone would like to share them that woulld be great, thanx superdown

[Lone Star]

I used a .30 Carbine 10" Contender on several Kodiak Island deer and it worked, with 125-grain BTips at ca. 1825 fps and one-shot case life.  That said, it was much less effective than my .30 Herrett or .300 Savage.  I certainly would not use the 110-grain bullets as some brands are spotty for expansion even at T/C velocities, let alone the much slower revolver speeds.  

Where anyone got the idea that a .30 Carbine is the equivalent of a .357 must have missread something.  The original poste was asking about the 7.5" Blackhawk for deer; here are some Speer data for you, muzzle velocities for 110-grain bullets:

.30 Carbine = 1418 fps/491 fpe
.357 Mag = 1693 fps/700 fpe
or...
.357 Mag = 1443 fps/578 fpe - with 125 grain bullet (same sectional density as the .308/110)

The .30 Carbine is a nice little cartridge and is fun to shoot, but it is far better as a plinker than it is as a medium game round.

[Redhawk1]

I used a .30 Carbine 10" Contender on several Kodiak Island deer and it worked, with 125-grain BTips at ca. 1825 fps and one-shot case life.  That said, it was much less effective than my .30 Herrett or .300 Savage.  I certainly would not use the 110-grain bullets as some brands are spotty for expansion even at T/C velocities, let alone the much slower revolver speeds.  

Where anyone got the idea that a .30 Carbine is the equivalent of a .357 must have missread something.  The original poste was asking about the 7.5" Blackhawk for deer; here are some Speer data for you, muzzle velocities for 110-grain bullets:

.30 Carbine = 1418 fps/491 fpe
.357 Mag = 1693 fps/700 fpe
or...
.357 Mag = 1443 fps/578 fpe - with 125 grain bullet (same sectional density as the .308/110)

The .30 Carbine is a nice little cartridge and is fun to shoot, but it is far better as a plinker than it is as a medium game round.

I got my info from the speer reloading manual. Look at the rounds loaded with W296. for the 30 carbine.

[Lone Star]

I got my info from the speer reloading manual. Look at the rounds loaded with W296. for the 30 carbine.

The data I quoted is from the latest Speer manual, but I used revolver data for both cartridges; both the Speer #13 and Sierra #5 books put .30 Carbine/Blackhawk maximum 110-grain loads between 1400 and 1450 fps at the muzzle.  Afterall, the title of the thread is "Blackhawk .30 Carbine Hunting Limitations".....  :wink:

Also, your math is a bit rusty.  A 140-grain .357 bullet traveling 1063 fps at 100 yards has 351 fpe, not 276 fpe.   :roll:

Like I posted above:

Where anyone got the idea that a .30 Carbine is the equivalent of a .357 must have missread something.

 I think you may want to go back in your reloading books and look again....  

[Old Griz]

:cb2: Fellas, both rounds were designed to kill two-legged critters--not four. Yes, both will kill deer if you're close enough and shot placement is good. If you want to hunt deer, or anything else for that matter, the smart thing is to use enough gun. You don't have to over do it, but have enough. If a handgun, make sure the caliber starts with .41, and go upward from there. Someone mentioned the .30-30. One of the best deer cartridges in the world. Overlooked by so many today, but still one of the best sellers year after year.

Leave the self-defense and plinkin' guns for self-defense and plinkin'. Hunt with a huntin' gun. (My dealer has .41 BH for $339. That won't break the bank.)

[Redhawk1]

I got my info from the speer reloading manual. Look at the rounds loaded with W296. for the 30 carbine.

The data I quoted is from the latest Speer manual, but I used revolver data for both cartridges; both the Speer #13 and Sierra #5 books put .30 Carbine/Blackhawk maximum 110-grain loads between 1400 and 1450 fps at the muzzle.  Afterall, the title of the thread is "Blackhawk .30 Carbine Hunting Limitations".....  :wink:

Also, your math is a bit rusty.  A 140-grain .357 bullet traveling 1063 fps at 100 yards has 351 fpe, not 276 fpe.   :roll:

Like I posted above:

Where anyone got the idea that a .30 Carbine is the equivalent of a .357 must have missread something.

 I think you may want to go back in your reloading books and look again....  

My mistake, I was looking at the carbine rifle data.
As far as my math, I got that information off a web site where you enter the bullet weight and speed and it calculates the fpe for you.  So I am sorry I did not do the math for myself.  :roll:  

[Lone Star]

Redhawk, if I had a dime for every mistake I made on-line, I'd have enough for a new mouse....   :-D  

[mt3030]

Don't know what the limitations are, but found out that a Speer 100 gr plinker will ruin a coyotes day at any range you can stick it to him. (Found this out while loading hay in the field and the dogs were after the mice being uncovered. Fun.)

[Flash]

I own both in the Blackhawk and wouldn't use the 30 over the 357 for deer sized game. For reloading, you're limited on bullet choice due to cylinder rotation with the 30 so there's no real advantage for choosing the 30 over the 357. The 357 would be ideal with 180's or even 158's within 150 yards but 110's in the 30 would be too light in a handgun.