Powerbelt penetration question

[Pruts]

Fellas,

I am shooting a 295gr Powerbelt (not aerotip) over 100gr loose 777 out of my Encore with great accuracy.  In fact, I killed two deer with it this year: one was a 90 yard neck shot off sticks and the other was a 78 yard off-hand high shoulder.  I love the Encore!  My concern was that neither shot left an exit would and the bullet completly disintegrated on impact.  In both cases I found little fragments of bullet all around the wound channel.  Now, both animals fell right where they stood and died almost instantly (the shock of the high shoulder shot was such that it blew out the diaphram).  However, both were doe and I wonder what might have been if it was a good buck with more muscle and body size.  

Herein lies the problem: I love the accuracy, absence of crud ring, ease of loading, etc. that the Powerbelts give me, but I am concerned with the weight retention and penetration.  Are the Aerotips any better?  I would like to continue using the Powerbelts, if possible.  Thanks in advance!

Pruts

[Keith Lewis]

I suspect the bullets are the non coated ones. The copper coated are not supposed to come apart like the pure lead ones. I have shot elk with the 295 and 348 copper aerotip ones and I get an exit wound. In fact I am considering using the copper non-aerotip next year if I get drawn for elk again. I want to slow them down a little as they go right through the elk rib cage if no major bone is hit. I am pushing the 295gr. with 90gr. of Black Mag'3 which is about 1850fps.

[Redhawk1]

The Aerotips, should give you better penetration also. It does not allow the bullet to expand quit a fast as the plain power belts. I had pass through shots with all the Aerotips I used. Bucks and doe's.  

[Pruts]

Thanks, fellas.  I think I'll be spending the little extra to get the Aerotips for next season.  Glad to hear they should solve the problem; I really like the way the Powerbelts shoot out of my Encore.  

Pruts

[Mark whiz]

I've gotten complete pass-thrus using the 348gr Aerotip with 90gr of 777 on hogs - but also zero expansion on those hits.

One would think that if a hog's tough shoulder doesn't cause a bullet to expand (or disintegrate) - nothing would.  The good news is, Porky dropped dead on the spot when hit.  :grin:

Personally, if given a choice, I'd rather have a bullet expand and expend all it's energy inside the body cavity than exhibit consistent pass-thrus but no expansion.  But if your lead Powerbelt actually came apart, rather than expanding, that's a bad thing.

[TomD]

I took a spike buck this fall at about 50yds with my Encore. I used a 295gr Jacketed Aero Tipped Powerbelt over 2 50gr Pyrodex Pellets. Heart shot...large entry wound, no exit wound. Went 20yds & dropped.

It was my first ML game critter  :-D

I really like this load in my Encore. I also use the 25 ACP Breech Plug.

[Pruts]

I probably should have said that the PB's I was shooting were of the copper-jacketed variety.  Mark Whiz, I hear what you're saying.  Even though the bullet disintegrated, the force was such that it blew out my high-shoulder shot doe's diaphram, which killed her very quickly.  I think the Aerotip will be fine as it will give me better penetration and expansion (even though the reports seem a little conflicting).  

PRuts

[dambrose]

Hey Pruts,
                  I too have had the exact same experience with the 295gr hollow point. This past 2004 season I took 2 deer with this bullet and 100grs of Pyrodex out of a Remington 700ML. The first was a 4-point shot at about 25yds and the second was a 75lb button at about 45-50 yds. Both were broadside at impact. Neither bullet passed through and the damage was exactly as you descibed. This has led me to the same concerns regarding either a larger animal, longer shots, and quarting away angles. Also my next door neighbor is using the same combination and took 3 deer last season with the same results. I am very happy with the excellent accuracy, easy loading, minimal fouling etc and I am thinking that perhaps a heavier Powerbelt may be in this seasons future. Providing of course that it still gives acceptable accuracy.  Good luck.

[Longcruise]

My friend was shooting the 295 coper clad PB's several years ago.  He had one penetrate an elk literelly from stem to stern and exited even after breaking the elks hip.  Later he had a bullet from the same package and same load blow up inside of a 100# hog without an exit :?   Go figger!

[tscott]

Yea, I shoot the same load as the original post... 7 deer! Some go through, and some don't. I really don't care. All deer have been killed on the spot = 40 - 125 yds. I continue to use Powerbelts because of ease in loading and most importantly accuracy. Pretty consistant between Huntsman and CVA (Staghorn) rifles!

[Darrell H]

My load for my Encore is 110 grains of Triple 7 and a 295 grain HP copper clad Powerbelt.  I too do not get exit wounds but guess what...I don't need one!!  The animals that I have shot either fall in their tracks or take only a few steps.  Examples:


Colorado mule deer shot in September 2004 at 126 yards.  It ran about 10 yards.


Wild hot shot at 75 yards shot just behind ear in the neck.  It fell in its tracks.  


Wild hog shot at 20 yards in heart.  It ran 20 yards.


Wild hog shot at 20 yards high in lungs.  It fell in its tracks.

I guess that my advice is to shoot your 295 grain load and go collect your deer!!!  I doubt that many whitetail deer will be bigger in body size than my 2004 mule deer and the 295 grain Powerbelt performed flawlessly.

Good luck with whatever you decide!!  

X

[tscott]

YEAH!!!!

[Pruts]

X-caliber,

Great pics!  I'm definitely staying with the PB's, but may consider trying the Aerotips this year just to see the difference.  You're right, if they're dropping them in their tracks who cares if there's an exit wound!  

Pruts

[jeff223]

now im not trying to start something here but if you are not getting an exit wound on deer size game and the bullet is not holding together (just blowing up) that bullet is JUNK.its not a big game bullet.i wouldnt even use them again.shoot them at the range to use them up.there are lots of good muzz loader bullets out there that hold together and will exit the animal leaving a good exit wound.bullets that do that are called GOOD bullets (BIG GAME BULLETS)and they kill very fast.change to something else and leave the JUNK on the shelfs at the store

[Darrell H]

Jeff,

In my experience the 295 grain HP Powerbelt bullets do not "blow up".  They do however, expand to twice the original diameter and they knock animals over like they were hit with they hammer of Thor.   I have recovered and weighed several bullets and they retain about 50% of their original weight.  In my experience, they pass through the body cavity and often lodge just underneath the hide on the opposite side.

I couldn't be more pleased with my "junk" bullets.  

X

[jeff223]

up above they stated the bullets disintegrated and they only found little fragments in the wound channel.this tells me the bullets are very poor and  act more like varmint bullets(Vmax or BT varmint bullets).if you are happy with bullets that perform like this on deer size game then thats your choice.

i for one along with most everyone else would choose a better constructed bullet for big game hunting.

[Longcruise]

for one along with most everyone else would choose a better constructed bullet for big game hunting.

Jeff, could not agree more!  If bullets are hitting deer and failing to exit on a body mass 8 or 10 inches wide, they are only worthy of coyotes and smaller.  So what if the deer all drop on the spot!  What happens when you hit an actual big game animal :-D

[sabotloader]

All,

Take a look at the pictures TurkeyAddict posted showing PowerBelts - these ought to answer answer a lot of questions....  I would not prefer to take a chance with these...

http://forum.hunting.net/asppg/tm.asp?m=951760&mpage=2

[jeff223]

well put sabotloader and the picture tells alot.i can also post a picture of some good big game hunting bullets that were recovered from game that were shot end to end.thats the only way i ever recovered a muzzleloader bullet from a game animal.even the 250 gr SST held together better that those bullets they are talking about.an end to end shot with a 250grSST had about 1/3 of its weight left.they well regret useing those bullets someday.


i will not forget about these varmint bullets that those guys are talking about so when im out after a woodchuck i will have the right bullet for the job

[Darrell H]

Longcruise said:

So what if the deer all drop on the spot! What happens when you hit an actual big game animal

I really can't follow your logic Longcruise.  If the deer all drop on the spot that's a good thing isn't it?  Besides, I feel like a 250+ lb. mule deer is an actual big game animal.  

Jeff,

It's interesting that you should bring up the 250 grain Hornady SST bullets.  I have killed several hogs with this bullet/sabot combination.  Here are some examples of those kills:


Here's a hog that was shot at 40-50 yards with 100 grains GOEX FFG and a 250 grain Hornady SST from an Encore BP pistol.  This shot resulted in a complete pass through.  I "covered" the hog for several minutes with the pistol while he lay dying.  I was completely dissatisfied with how long it took for the animal to expire even though he fell in his tracks.


Here's a photo of a hog that resulted in a chase to finish him off.  He was shot with 100 grains of Triple 7 and the 250 grain Hornady SST/sabot combination.  I slowed him down with the first shot long enough to finish him off with a second shot about half an hour later when I caught up with him.  Again, I had a complete pass through on the first shot.  The hog was facing me on the second shot on and it killed him instantly.


Here's another photo of a small hog shot with the Encore BP pistol.  Again, I shot him with the Hornady 250 grain SST and a complete passthrough the lungs.  Again, I covered him with the pistol to make sure that he did not run for probably 10 minutes before he completely expired.  


Now realize I'm not arguing with your results from the Hornady SST sabot.  If they work for you that's great!!  I will probably try them in my rifle someday.  The reason that I shot SST's in my pistol is that they were much more accurate than anything else that I have found.  They give me 1" groups at 50 yards with a 2X scope.  For some reason the Powerbelts won't group at all in the pistol barrel.  

I regret to inform all of you that I shot another hog this year with the pistol and 250 grain SST/Triple 7 combination that I felt like I put a good shot on him but unfortunately I never found him.  This is the only hog that I have ever shot that I did not recover.  That's what I'm trying to say is that just because you poke a hole all the way through an animal that doesn't mean you will put him down quickly and in some cases you might not recover him at all.  

I have sworn that I will not use this combination anymore with the pistol for the experiences that I have had on these four animals.  Before I will use the pistol anymore, I will work up a load with an XTP bullet/sabot (since Powerbelts don't work well) so that I can get some good bullet expansion and tear up some lung tissue rather than just having a bullet plow right through.  And just so everyone knows, I chronographed the pistol barrel/250 grain SST/Triple 7 load at around 1750 fps.  My 295 grain Powerbelt does not leave my full length rifle barrel much faster.

I realize that this is an argument in which no one wins and it has been going on forever, not just in muzzleloading rifle forums but centerfire forums as well.  However, if something falls in its tracks and dies quickly then in my opinion the load is working like it is supposed to.

Good luck to everyone with whatever muzzleloading projectile you choose.

 X

[jeff223]

x-caliber
if you were to go back and read the first post here you will see the man is talking deer "BIG GAME" not little hogs that weigh 50 or 60 lbs.those varmint bullets would of worked very good on those hogs.the man is talking deer "BIG GAME"

you will also see if you go back and read that first post the man said the bullet didnt exit on a neck shot.the bullets in question are JUNK and based on  what you are shooting i think you know that too

you also stated you made a good shot on a hog and lost that animal.you blamed the bullet for that loss.here is the way it is :wink: you can only blame your self for that loss.either you need alittle work on your  tracking skills  because you couldnt track the animal to where it died or you made a bad shot.you misjudged the angle or something like that and only think you made a good shot.face the facts my friend and that may help you to become a better hunter

[Darrell H]

Jeff,

I apologize if I have offended you it was not my intention.

Darrell Harper

[bubba]

x you cant offend a man who knows everything

[jeff223]

bubba,your point it taken :oops: im sorry about that :oops:

x-caliber,you didnt offend me in any way and i sure hope i didnt offend you.i guess i get alittle carried away in these forum games somtimes.my sincere apology to you

[Darrell H]

No problem :wink:

X

[josie wales]

Power Belts have been out for a while now. Some swear by them some swear at them. I will not use them for other problems (poor fit in my Remington MLS). But if there is a hint of problems about a bullet do not use it. There are some great bullets on the market. Big Hydra-Cons will solve most penetration problems so will Great Plains. I have shot deer with Power Belts and the bullet lodges under the skin on the opposite side, so does a #1 buckshot pellet, Hmmmmm think about this!! The Power belt retained less than 40% of its weight. (348 gr. 54 cal. copper HP). There is NO replacement for displacement. Big bullets=big holes=food on the table. Oh by the way I had venison with noodles last night.