will bullet swagers have to put and ID on their bullets?

[TomF]

I heard part of a news report that said, in California, pistol bullets will have an ID placed on them - so law enforcement officials will be able to trace the purchaser of the bullet, in case it's used in a crime.   I didn't catch the whole story, but I assume it's just a PROPOSED law.  Does anyone know?  Does anyone have more details? I haven't had time to do an on-line search yet....

If it's passed, does that mean bullet swagers and casters will have to put a serial number on their bullets?  What about reloading components/supplies?  Will MidwayUSA have to sell serial numbered bullets to CA residents?  Does that mean ALL pistol bullets produced by the big guys will have a serial number?

Do the rouge bullet swagers have to go underground?  Will there be a demand for black-market, unmarked pistol bullets?

[jcunclejoe]

I sure hope a blackmarket becomes available. Many a fortune was made when booze was illegal. I ordered my swaging setup yesterday and since I live next door to the republik of Kalifornia. I could be rich. Oh wait, I ordered 41 caliber stuff and everybody knows the only thing they shoot down there is 9's & 40's.
Oh well it was just a thought.

Hopefully someone will realize the foolishness of their ways and stop it before it becomes law. It is only proposed at this time.

Joe

[Yukon Gold]

The proposal is not to put serial# on bullets, but require guns to put an "ID" on bullets as they fire....through the use of firing-pin identifiers.  I guess a micro-stamp on the primer showing serial# etc of the gun.

Hoping to find shooting suspects more quickly, California may become the first state to require semiautomatic pistols to stamp their make, model and serial number onto every cartridge they fire.

Proposed legislation would require semiautomatic models produced after January 2007 to carry the innovative microstamping technology.

When peace officers find empty cartridges - shell casings - at crime scenes, the identifying stamp could help determine what gun fired them and, through an existing database, who purchased the weapon

Find the article here:

Code: [Select]

http://www.innovations.harvard.edu/news/5147.html



also another article here:

Code: [Select]

http://www.csgv.org/news/headlines/sacbee2_20_2005.cfm

Sacramento Bee
Making Handguns Leave Their Mark
Bill would mandate firing-pin identifiers to help solve crimes
By Jim Sanders
February 20, 2005

Hoping to find shooting suspects more quickly, California may become the first state to require semiautomatic pistols to stamp their make, model and serial number onto every cartridge they fire.

Proposed legislation would require semiautomatic models produced after January 2007 to carry the innovative microstamping technology.

[talon]

This sort of thing just cost Maryland $$Millions$$ with absolutely no benefits. And why only self loading pistols?? How about ball bats, broken beer bottles, lug wrenches, knives, etc.  California is a real strange place indeed.

[TomF]

Here's what I found (at  http://xtramsn.co.nz/technology/0,,7937-4324986,00.html)..it was dated yesterday:

California's attorney general introduced pioneering legislation that would require all bullets sold in the nation's most populous state to bear tiny identification numbers.

The bill, aimed at helping investigators solve crime, would require ammunition vendors to submit sales records to a state registry starting in 2007. Anyone bringing bullets into the state not bearing the tiny serial number etched by laser could be punished for up to a year in prison.

The legislation - which could become the first of its kind nationwide - calls for California to assess fees not to exceed one-half of one cent per bullet to fund the program.

Ravensforge, a Seattle company which has developed a bullet coding system, says bullet engraving machines cost US$300,000 to US$500,000 each. But the firm says that because the United States sells ten billion bullets a year, the per bullet cost will be very low.

So, at least according to this source, each bullet has to be engraved with an ID?!?

I don't think I can afford one of them new-fangled engraving machines for  $300,000+ to engrage a 10 cent bullet!

[TomF]

Maybe it's a word/definition problem....do they mean a "bullet" or a "cartridge case"?

If they mean case.....you'd better be picking up your fired brass at the range, for fear that someone will scrounge it, reload it, and use it in a crime....with YOU, as the original purchaser of the case, being liable for the crime!

[Yukon Gold]

The legislation is not to engrave bullets, but to require "micro-engraving" on Firing Pins of semi-auto, so when the firing pin hits the primer, it would leave a microscopic engraving of the guns maker, serial, etc. on the spent case. This data would be kept on a database, and supposedly be able to track back to the owner.

This would apply to semi-autos only, since revolvers do not leave the shell casings behind in the scene of a crime.

Of course this would be of no use if the "criminal" changes the firing pin, or just slightly file down the end of the pin.  Who is to say a criminal won't plant another's shell casing at the scene

This is just another stupid C**P idea, all in CA's attempt to eliminate handguns all togeather.  

Since they can't succeed in an out-right ban, they will raise enough legislation that gun manufactures will just stop selling there.

[Robert]

Once again..just another attempt to make it hard for 'law abiding' gun owners.  I think I rememember a long time ago, someone suggesting..CRIMINALS DO NOT REGISTER THEIR GUNS.  It would be no small feat for a person with criminal intent to go to the range and collect brass, and spread it around the ground, and then use his REVOLVER in a crime.  Ha Ha....California is just plaain silly.  Get out NOW...while you still can. We should give it back to Mexico.  Who in Hell needs that God Forsaken place?  Can ANYBODY think of anything GOOD that comes from there (excluding veggies and fruit?)  All that California ever does is TAKE from the rest of the people in this nation....then they try to impose their stupid laws, and HORRIBLE FAMILY HEALTH ideas on the rest of us.

[Yukon Gold]

My apologies - depending on which article you read - either the two I posted - which calls for micro-etching on firing pins of semi-autos.. or.. the one by TomF, which calls for each bullet to be serialized, it seems to be two conflicting news articles regarding the same issue.  
Maybe California is contemplating both?  Both are asinine.

If they require serial# on all ammo, what about the millions of reloaded ammo in CA each year?  Will they illegalize casting your own bullet?  Illegalize using your old brass?  What about primers and powder?  It looks like a step to stop the reloaders to control ammunition in California.  Of what use is a gun if you don't have ammunition to put in it.  Can't ban handguns?, then control the ammunition .... same thing.

And everyone knows, most criminals reload their own ammunition!  NOT!

[Flash]

This, along with all the other presumed senseless laws are designed not to serve the public but instead, make firearm sales more difficult if not impossible. The fired case law in Maryland drove so many small gun shops out of business that you have to search long and hard to find one now. There used to be one in every neighborhood when I lived there. In the politician's eyes, no gun shops equates to no gun sales and an effective win for the anti gunners. They can't outlaw the 2nd ammendment so they make it so difficult for the manufacturer to comply with new laws that new guns aren't shipped to those states. When the gun shop can't get the main stay of their business, they close up. It is a simple formula but quite effective and the politicians are relentless. Buy your guns while you can before they wind up being just another part of history.