.22LR VS. .25ACP

[HouseofCash]

Well what do you guys think? I know that one is center fire and one is rimfire and that is a big difference. But, what do you all think is a better round?

I think the lack of the .25ACP is because the lack of the pistols made for them. Not to many good .25s made when you consider the pistols made for the .22LR, S&W, Ruger, Walther EXT. EXT. . You can get a really nice small game or target pistol in .22LR. But I see nothing but pocket pistols for the .25ACP.

So do you guys think a good MKII would be as good with a .25ACP round? I really dont know. Does the .22LR have a faster FPS? Why did the .22LR rain king over the .25ACP? Besides the fact that .22LR rounds are dirt cheep.

                                               Dave.

[Rustyinfla]

I think the platform is the key. If you could get a pistol with say a 5" bbl and adjustable sights in the .25 acp it would be a whole different matter.

            Rusty <><

[Redhawk1]

I don't think the 25ACP offers an advantage over the 22LR.  Price to shoot the 25ACP is way more expensive then the 22LR. I would always pick a 22LR over any 25ACP.  

[unspellable]

The 25 ACP's natural niche is in mouse guns where the semi-rimmed case is better for reliable feeding (Not that cheap mouse guns are reliable feeders anyway.) and the center fire primer makes for more reliable ignition.  A point usually over looked here is that the 22 LT with its rimmed case dictates a certain layout in the magazine whereas the 25 ACP doesn't.

The 22 LR leaves the 25 ACP behind at a walk when it comes to plinking, small game hunting, or target shooting.  Far cheaper.

It's a toss up as to which makes a better stopper.  I strongly suspect that it would be a toss up for accuracy if we had match grade 25 ACP ammo launched from a match grade platform.

[Mikey]

HouseofCash - unspellable has it right.  The 22lr is a better choice for plinking and small gaming but you rarely plink or hunt small game with a pocket rocket.

Both are about on par as a defensive piece but the 25 acp is a centerfire and that is supposed to enhance reliable detonation in a self defense piece but I have never had a misfire in my 22 pocket pistol.

As for makers - Beretta is the first that comes to mind in the area of reliable pocket pistols.  Their Model 21A (I bleieve) comes in both 22lr and 25 acp.  The Model 950 is 25 acp.  Both have tip-up barrels which obviates racking the slide for chambering the first round.  Both have a history of reliability.  I have one in each flavor and recommend them to anyone who asks.  HTH.  Mikey.

[unspellable]

Mikey,

You are just using the wrong brand of 22 LR's.  The percentage of misfires seems to vary considerably with make and model of ammo.  I have had a lot of misfires with Remington Thunderbolt or what ever they call their cheap line.  It seems to be due to uneven distribution of the priming around the rim.  If one misfires it will usually go if I rotate it in the chamber and hit the rim in another spot.  On the other hand I have had pretty reliable ignition with Winchester's low end target load, the T22.

[Mikey]

unspellable - that's very interesting, and something I really hadn't put a lot of thought to, but it makes sense now.  

In my 21A 22lr I carry Remington's golden bullet, the 40 gn high speed solid.  They have never misfired.  I also use an awful lot of Remington's Sub-sonic loads and they to have never misfired.  

My buddy gave me a brick of Remington's Thunderbolt a couple of years ago and I have had a couple of misfires in both my Ruger MkII and my 10/22.  Everything else works and goes bang each time, except the Thunderbolts.  They are almost ok though as I can usually get through a box or two before I hear it go 'click' and not 'bang'.  

Thanks.  Mikey.

[BillP]

I know this sounds sort of morbid but I worked for years as an x-ray tech. and did a lot of films on suicides both successful and not.  A popular way to off oneself is to use a small pistol and shoot yourself in the head.  In general those who used a .25 ACP botched the job.  Those who used a .22LR were successful.

The only advantage I can see for the .25 is that it feeds better in those little guns.

[SAWgunner]

BillP, you are correct.  There is a reason that suppressed weapons intended for covert operations and assassinations were of the .22 lr persuasion and not 25 acp.  Trust me, the guys that put these things together very well could have gone the .25 acp route if they had chosen to.

Another morbid note here.  About 15 years ago my Grandfather was offed by a person/persons that shot him execution style in the back of the head.  It was a .22 lr round, and it came out under his right eye.  


There are reasons that people use this round and not the .25 acp.


SAW

[SD Handgunner]

Not sure if this will shed any light on your questions or not, but over the years I have owned a couple 2" Small Frame .22 LR Revolvers. Back about 12 years ago I owned a really nice little Smith & Wesson Model 63 Double Action Revolver. While in possession of this little Revolver I did chronograph a few different brands and types of .22 LR through it.
            
40gr. Federal #711 Champion = 923 FPS / 76 FPE
40gr. Federal #711 Classic = 907 FPS - 73 FPE
40gr. Federal #711 Gold Medal Target = 868 FPS - 67 FPE
40gr. Federal #805 Rifle Match = 905 FPS - 73 FPE
40gr. Winchester T-22 = 889 FPS - 70 FPE
40gr. C.C.I. Standard Velocity = 877 FPS - 68 FPE
40gr. P.M.C. Target 22 - 873 FPS - 68 FPE
40gr. Hanson Target - 872 FPS - 68 FPE
40gr. Eley "Match" Black Box = 897 FPS - 71 FPE
32gr. C.C.I. Stinger H.P. = 1121 FPS - 89 FPE
36gr. Federal Hi-Power H.P. = 939 FPS - 71 FPE
36gr. Remington Hi-Velocity H.P. = 883 FPS - 62 FPE
40gr. Federal Hi-Power = 924 FPS - 76 FPE
40gr. Winchester Hi-Velocity (Super-X) = 912 FPS - 74 FPE
40gr. Remington Hi-Velocity (Golden) = 891 FPS - 74 FPE

Now remember this test was done 12 years ago or so, and some of this ammo is either not available today, or has changed over the years.

More recently a couple weeks ago I did a similar velocity comparison with a friends 2" Taurus Model 94 Double Action Revolver. The purpose of this test was to determine which ammo (of what I had on hand) would provide the most Muzzle Energy for self defense.

40gr. CCI Blazer = 929 FPS - 77 FPE
40gr. Wolf Match Target = 804 FPS - 57 FPE
40gr. CCI Velocitors Hollow Point = 993 FPS - 88 FPE
60gr. Aquila Super Subsonic Snipers = 689 FPS - 63 FPE
31gr. Federal SpitFire Hyper Velocity Hollow Point = 1042 FPS - 75 FPE
36gr. Remington BULK Hollow Point = 856 FPS - 59 FPE
38gr. Remington Sub Sonic Hollow Point = 792 FPS - 53 FPE
36gr. Winchester BULK X-Pert Hollow Point = 972 FPS - 76 FPE

Granted this does nothing to answer your questions, and no I have never owned nor fired a .25 ACP. However it should give you an idea as to the ballistic performance of the .22 LR when fired from a concealable 2" Barrled Handgun.

I had envisioned that the 60gr. Aquila SSS would be the ammo of choice for self defense in the little 2" Taurus. Well in shooting this ammo I quickly learned that the Rifling Twist of most .22's is not made for this bullet as most key hole through the target. However even key holing, at 7 yards shooting the little 2" Taurus double action, rapid fire I could manage to print 9 shot groups of about 3" or slightly less.  This accuracy level would suffice for a self defense situation, and the tumbling bullet may or may not create a devistating wound. However after shooting this limited amount of ammo I think if I were going to rely on a .22 LR as a Back Up Weapon / Self Defense Weapon I would more than likely load it with CCI Velocitors.

Larry