Author Topic: 45-70 LOW pressure loads? (Read 870 times)

mt3030 · « **on:** May 08, 2005, 06:48:48 PM »

I see we've had some excellant suggestions for Handi and BC loads. There is a load of experience among the various loaders of the 45-70. Now I need some advice on low pressure loads. I have two H&R Shikari 45-70s which I have never loaded for. I know these were built on the old Topper actions, and thus must be used with "Springfield" type loads. Also, I'm new to cast bullets.

First question: Has anyone been sucessful in duplicating the 405 gr Remington factory loads? These must be in the "Springfield" loadings, and I have a good quanity of the Remington 405 Soft Points. Would like to duplicate this load so that I can go back and forth between handloads and the Green boxes when need be.

Second question: My Lyman manual also doesn't list a 405 cast "Springfield" load, only lighter bullets. I have some 405 gr Performance Cast on order, and want to use these with smokeless powder in the Shikaris. Any suggestion?

I do not have access to a chronograph and thought maybe someone out there has done this research.

Thank you..Wally

quickdtoo · « **Reply #1 on:** May 08, 2005, 07:38:44 PM »

I have been using the 400gr sierra load data from Accurate for my 45-120 shooting the rem 405gr using XMP5744, they have data for the 45-70 also....the 405 rem factory load shoots at 1330fps.

http://www.accuratepowder.com/loaddata_caliber_rifle_standard_458cal.htm

http://www.remington.com/ammo/ballistics/centerfire/results.asp?cal=54

James B · « **Reply #2 on:** May 09, 2005, 01:00:30 AM »

I like the 405 grain cast bullet loaded with 13 grains of Unique and a LG rifle Magnum primer. Its cheap to shoot and shoots well in My handi rifles. It shoots about 1100-1150 fps. No fillers or wads needed. My New Lyman manul list the 405 cast springfield load at 1313 fps with 29.0 grains of 5744 OR 38.5 grains of 3031. Try the Unique load its a good one.

mt3030 · « **Reply #3 on:** May 09, 2005, 03:22:15 AM »

Thanks Quick and James,

Being new to cast bullets I guess I need to get my nose out Hornady and Speer manuals. The only cast references I have were printed before the 45-70 was broken into three levels. I like the looks of the Accurate data from their web page. Think I'll get the latest Lyman and Accurate manuals.
Thanks again..
Wally

James B · « **Reply #4 on:** May 09, 2005, 07:44:16 AM »

Anytime!! :lol:

Mitch in MI · « **Reply #5 on:** May 09, 2005, 01:43:40 PM »

How much pressure would a full case of FFFg generate with a 400gr cast?

quickdtoo · « **Reply #6 on:** May 09, 2005, 02:12:30 PM »

I would think that since black powder cartridge loads have the most consistency when loaded slightly compressed, a full case of 2f or 3f compressed would have considerably less pressure than book loads of smokeless powder since the velocities are in the 1100-1200fps range for the 405gr cast bullets. Here's some good reading for ya Wally if you want to consider that option....

http://www.castbullet.com/shooting/1871.htm

Ed Hill · « **Reply #7 on:** May 09, 2005, 04:45:14 PM »

I also like 13 grns of Unique, but it puts out higher pressure for the performance than some other loads. Lyman shows 13.5 grns making 17,100 C.U.P. at 1154fps with a 400 gr cast bullet, they show 41.5 grns of 3031 producing 1414 fps at 15,700C.U.P.

E.D.

Critter · « **Reply #8 on:** May 09, 2005, 05:07:19 PM »

I would throw my hat in the 3031 ring as well. I don't have my loading log in front of me but I had very good luck with 3031 in several different low pressure applications.

James B · « **Reply #9 on:** May 09, 2005, 05:15:39 PM »

My Lyman manual shows 38.5 grains of 3031 produces 16000 lbs. 17100 is within the trapdoor range for sure. Many say the RE 7 is the best powder for the 45-70. I have not tried that one as yet. I do have a can though. I have been shooting about 68 grains of 2F goex with the Montana Precision 500 grai RN Government bullet at about 1200-1250 fps. Thats in the BC.

mt3030 · « **Reply #10 on:** May 09, 2005, 05:46:46 PM »

Thanks for the comments on 3031. I have a good supply because that is my "go to"powder in my 30-30s. Picked up the Lyman 48th Edition this afternoon and I'm impressed with the data there. I can see that this cast game is going to be fun. I will have a Shikari with it's original sights (Thanks EVOC ONE) and a Shikari that has been scoped to play with. Hope that these older guns with cut rifling will perform. Again, thanks for all the advice.

Wally

Longcruise · « **Reply #11 on:** May 10, 2005, 03:29:47 AM »

The Lee 405 grain hollow base bullet is an exact duplicate of the Govt 405 grain bullet designed for the original trap door. Loaded with ffg it will give excellent performance.

If you plan to take up shooting BP in your 45-70, be sure to get a good BP reloading primer first. The rules for good results and safety are completely different than for modern powders.

I got good results with the 405 rem in trapdoor load levels using 4895. Don't have the charge handy, but then again, you should look it up first anyway :-)

Also, there is the little one book one caliber loading manual for the 45-70 that has loads (pun intended) of cast trap door data in it.