Author Topic: Winchester Super Shadow (?) in 25 WSSM - HELP!  (Read 512 times)

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Offline Bug

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Winchester Super Shadow (?) in 25 WSSM - HELP!
« on: May 15, 2005, 05:54:30 AM »
At least I think it is a Super Shadow. It is matte blue, with a syn. stock & no floorplate. It is in 25WSSM, anyway. This rifle belongs to a bud, and it has ISSUES! :lol:
 The biggest issue is that the cocking stroke (raising the bolt handle) is very stiff, empty, even if it is already cocked. At first, the action was in a bind, due to the hot-glue bedding. I cleaned that up, and now it is a bit easier/smoother. When the safety is 1/2-way, the bolt lift is super light, and effortless. I have polished the cocking ramp, and the nose on the cocking piece to mirror finish, and have a good grease in the surface. I can't really change the angle of the ramp, can I? Don't want to weaken the striker spring, either. Is this something I/he just has to live with?  :cry:
 Next problem is an offshoot of the first. Cycling live ammo, with the safety off, bolt lift is tolerable, when a cartridge is fired (factory, or even light handloads), the bolt lift is REALLY STIFF! I'd say so stiff that the average adult ain't gonna easily, or rapidly, work the bolt from the shoulder. Primers look normal, with little to no flattening, and there are no ejector slot marks on the head, so I'm guessing pressures aren't too high. My bud wants this rifle set up for his 14-15 y/o daughter, and I'm thinking the bolt lift is gonna be too stiff for her!
 Next, resizing cases for reloading takes some oomph! I've used both my regular RCBS Case Slick spray lube, and Imperial die wax. It is easily the hardest case to resize, that I have ever had experience with. That includes some pretty heavy case forming chores. The dies are new, & I've cleaned and polished them, so there's no problem there. The cases aren't scratched, they are simply danged hard to resize! I am only resizing them enough to allow easy cycling, not completely F.L. resizing.
 Lastly, for some odd reason, after disassembling the bolt,
then reassemblign, the safety can be a real bear to engage. It'll be like that for a few cycles, then just free up on its own, and feel like about what you would expect. Something is settlin' in, I just don't know what. I also slightly polished the angle part where the safety engages, as it was a bit rough.
 Overall, I'd have to rate the metal fit & finish on this rifle as second rate. Has the quality at Winchester slipped so far, that this is the norm? FWIW, this is the SECOND of these rifles my friend has had. The first wouldn't group better than 4-5" @ 100. He sent it back to Winchester, and they sent him another rifle. No explanation was provided, as to what was wrong with the first.
 Yall help me out with this pig, it's about to get my goat!
It's The Little Things That Matter.

Offline gunnut69

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Winchester Super Shadow (?) in 25 WSSM - HE
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2005, 07:39:23 AM »
Bug;

Hard to diagnos from here but sound like the cocking cam..or the slot the sear(striker sear) rides in.  The reason it's so much better when the safety is in the middle position(bolt opens but striker won't fire) is that the striker is slightly retracted by the application of the safety. Thus it is not rubbing.  Check the sides of the slot on the bottom of the rear action ring.  Also be certain it's not rubbing on the bottom of the interior of the action or the rear stock bolt.  Also the rear of the trigger assembly has to move down to allow the striker sear to pass over it after firing.  If this part won't move down out of the way it will be forced down as the bolt is forced up.  gets really hard to do...  Be sure to check that polishing the safety cam surface didn't render the safety 'unsafe'.  Check by applying the safety to the center position and pulling the trigger firmly, release the trigger and move the safety to the fire position.  If the striker falls, you removed too much metal...the weapon is unsafe.  To see if the trigger is the problem, remove the trigger assembly and insert the bolt.  You can then test the bolt lift with the trigger out of the scenario.
gunnut69--
The 2nd amendment to the constitution of the United States of America-
"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

Offline Bug

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Winchester Super Shadow (?) in 25 WSSM - HE
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2005, 01:57:39 PM »
Gunnut69,
 I'll check the slot in the bottom of the rear action ring, that's one place I didn't look for a bind. As I said, I polished the cocking piece nose, and the cocking ramp on the rear of the bolt. Can't do much else there.
 As far as the safety, and where it contacts the cocking piece, all I did was polish, not remove any metal, and only on the angled part of the cocking piece, where the safety's cam engages it. It did help a bit, and made engaging the safety a bit easier. It still functions as before, and still passes the "bump" test. I didn't want to polish on the cam of the safety, for fear of what you describe.
 The trigger has plenty of clearance, and I already checked for binding action screws.
 At least you've given me one more place to look.
 I might need to be more clear... The main problem now, is bolt bind on a fired case. Even a starting-level reload. And it doesn't seem to get any worse, from starting loads, up to max listed loads. Factory loads seem to be just as bad.
 I began by sizing the case so the bolt would just close, easy, on a resized case. Fire them, and they bind, as do factory loads. My caliper doesn't show an uneven/crooked bolt face, either; at least it is within a half-thou or so. I even tried a dab of Imperial on the face of the bolt, but it didn't help any.
 I realize this is a 62,000+ psi cartridge. Is this just part & parcel when dealing with this kind of pressure?
It's The Little Things That Matter.

Offline gunnut69

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Winchester Super Shadow (?) in 25 WSSM - HE
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2005, 06:47:06 PM »
Will the bolt bind on a fired case re-inserted into the chamber?  Try firing a round and after the case is removed reinsert rotated 180 degrees.  Are there any marks on the fired cases?  Check the cases to ensure they are round.  Also check for burnished spots on the case.  Had a factory new 308 that had a ring around the chamber.  Fired cases had to be pounded out of the chamber.  Check for scratches IN the extractor groove on the case.. any burnished spots or scratches on the bolt/extractor.  Scope mount screw rubbing?  Check with a strong light the chamber.  Look for reamer marks or scratches.  With that much resistance, there has to be a mark somewhere!
gunnut69--
The 2nd amendment to the constitution of the United States of America-
"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."