Could the .457 sizing die be too small? Jacketed bullets are .458. What if I just made some bullets, lubed them, and loaded them up?
Do it! It may or may not solve the problem. Sorry to be mr. negative, but I'm betting it won't solve your problem!
Those big black powder size bullets have a bore ride nose. That means that when you chamber the round the nose of the bullet slides into the barrel and is a bit smaller than the lands. The reason for this design goes back to the days when only black powder was available. The only way you can load a 500 grain bullet into a 45-70 case and still leave enough room for the powder is to have a large portion of the bullet stick out of the case. When you set off the powder, the base of the bullet easily expands to fit the bore, even if its a thou under size. The nose portion of the bullet, however does not respond to the pressure nearly as much as the base of the bullet. If the nose is undersize by too much, the nose slumps or gets cockeyed in the bore. Next, it leaves the muzzle slumped (bent!) and hits the atmosphere at about 1100 to 1600 fps. If the bullet is a round nose it will be more forgiving than if it is a spitzer or, in the case of the Lee 3R, rather pointed. The point of the bullet, which is now cockeyed to the airstream around it creates an "overturning moment" that exceeeds the stability provided by the gyroscopic spin of the bullet (in oother words, the airstream hits the cockeyed shape and attitude of the bullet and causes it to flip over in the airstream).
Here is a 450 grain bullet that will work great in almost any 45-70 regardless of the bore and bullet dimensions. Only problem is it won't work with BP. OTOH, if you aren't into bp shooting then this will work good for you.
Here are some more bore ride nose bullets.
The above site does not link very well so if it doesn't, just go to this page
http://www.mikeswillowlake.com/bpc_procedures.htmThe bullet on the far right has a near perfect fit of it's bore ride nose to the bore of my 1885 Winchester hi wall. It is very accurate. The bullet directly to the left of it has an undersize bore ride nose and is not as accurate but does not tumble (it's a lee mould). If the bullet second from the right had a spitzer (3R) profile it would probably flip over too!!
That was the specific reason why I asked Haywire about the bore ride size. No use buying if it won't fit my bore. :eek:
I have seen other posts by user's of the 3R bullet that had the same problem with the bullet tumbling. Many of them wrote it off to twist rate, but
that is NOT the problem :shock: The problem is the fit of the bore ride nose to the lands of the barrel. They should fit as closely as possible while still allowing you to extract a loaded round and not having to push the nose into the lands (engrave it).
BTW, notice the "modern" 500 grain lee bullet with a gas check! This bullet tumbled in 25 yards out of a springfield trap door rifle with a .460 bore. It shot great out of a TCR 83 single shot barrel simply because the nose fit the bore properly.
My suggestion is to either obtain a mold that will throwq a "modern" style bullet without a long bore ride nose for use with modern powder, or slug your bore and special order a bore ride nose mould that will fit your bore.
Geez, my fingers are getting tired
