As I enter the hall of shame, I seek redemption

[subfan]

As much as it pains me, I must admit I shot at two huge deer this past week and missed.  I never missed before and pride myself on spending sufficient time on the range.  I think I figured out why and would like comments on my theory.  My son and I were on a ridge when a buck presents himself down below us.   I took the shot and obviously missed.  Perplexed, I checked the gun and at 100 yds, it shot 1" high like I sighted it in.  The gun is an A-Bolt 30-06 with Remington 150gr. loads.

So I went back the following night and got another shot and again a miss.  Both deer were 100-150 yds away.  I was aiming for the classic shot on the body.  

I checked one of my books and it said when you are up high to shoot low as the bullet will rise.  This combined with my gun being 1" high probably resulted in me sending the round over his back.  Agree or disagree?  I am going to try again.

My son (13) showed me up and got his  :lol:

[jhm]

Subfan:  I will agree , but you didnt say how high the ridge was the higher or lower the two are the more you are suppose to correct, I never was vary good at math but in one of my loading manuals it does have the formula and it said something about weather you are shooting up hill or down hill.    JIM

[huntsman]

If the angle was steep, say a 35% slope or more, and your range was well over 100 yards (like 150), then your bullet rise theory makes sense. The bullet would need to rise at least 8" from the sweet spot to miss, which is a lot at 100 yards. If not, then I would look at another cause, perhaps something in the flight path (although unlikely for two different shots). How sure are you about the range? Contrasting terrain can really fool you sometimes. If the target was over 230 yards with the 1" high sight-in, you could have shot under your target. Also, what type of rest were you using? A hard rest with no padding can cause the forestock to bounce ever so slightly from the vibrations of the shot, which can cause point of impact to rise quite a bit at 100 yards. Is there any temperature difference between the shot environments and the range? Once in a while a rifle can be kind of finnicky about temperature; doesn't happen too often but I have heard of it.

Hope you get everything straightened out in time to bring home some venison!

[subfan]

I am not sure how steep it was but it was a hike to get up there.  The temps. were the same, about 60 degrees.  First time no rest, then used a chair backing.  The brush was tall (5-7 feet) so my shooting sticks were out.  Someone else shot at these deer and missed also.  Guess that is why they grow up to be big.  Regarding the range, I used a rangefinder to determine where they were.  I might have hit a part of the brush or was just unsteady seeing those monsters.  Live and learn I guess.  I have never heard my heart pound through my ears before like I did seeing them.  I was very ticked off at myself because I have never missed before, heck I never had to track one I shot at either...

[Graybeard]

Not a chance. I think you'll have to find a better excuse than that one. At 100 yards or even at 150 yards with the rifle sighted 1" high at 100 yards the angle would have had to be almost straight up or down to have mattered. It would have only acted to shorten the distance and that wouldn't have caused a miss.

Now if you misjudged the distance and it was really 250-300 yards maybe you shot low. But high? Nope. Not from the angle or the way the gun was sighted.

GB

[jhm]

Subfan :  After reading my manual after I thought it was possible, I believe I would have to agree with GB on it as the way I read it if you are sighted in say for 100 yds on level ground the wither lower or raise the target at the same 100 yds. then you could be high, but if you move it further away and lower it or raise it you should be low,     JIM

[dakotashooter2]

I think the effects of shooting at angles are somewhat exagurated. At 100 and 150 yards the margin of error in an offhand shot is far more than that of shooting at an angle. Outside of benchrest shooting, at ranges of 300 yards and beyond you may start to see some effect but it will still be marginal. This somewhat depends on the cartridge you are using. Low velocity cartridges naturally will bear out this effect the most .  Trajectory/Bullet drop is an effect of gravity and time of flight. In most cases of shots taken at an upward or downward angle, range is the bigger issue as the animal may appear closer than it actually is and time of flight and the effect of gravity is extended.  I also noticed that you mentioned there was brush in the area. I would suggest that a deflection might be more likely. Deflection as such are the most highly underated cause of misses on game. I have done experiments on shooting at targets through 50 yards or more of brush. While the target only appeared to be clear of any significant brush many of the shots deflected before even getting close to the target. Remember the optical illusion factor. An animal can be nearly entirely shielded by pencil size brush and yet still present a "full" image that there is nothing in front of it. Even scopes and other optics may "look around" these obstructions but a bullet won't.

[myronman3]

buck fever.  up or down angles have to be extreme in order to come into play.  we all have had that happen; that is why it is called hunting and not killing.    the day i lose that feeling is the day i hang it up.

[Tony D]

Kinda late chiming in on this, but I wanted to correct a misconception.  When shooting downhill or uphill, the bullet doesn't rise - it still flys in the same arcing trajectory.  What gets shooters in trouble is the range.  When you measured the shot with the rangefinder, you were measuring the direct distance to your target.  A rifle bullet only cares about the horizontal distance to the target, so depending on the angle to your target, the horizontal distance can be significantly shorter.  A bit of "simple" trigonometry can be used to figure the actual range.  I've even heard of some who hunt in such terrain carry or memorize tables to figure the horizontal range to their targets for just this reason.

In this instance, if the measured range was 100 yards and the actual horizontal distance was around 60-75, the bullet still should have hit the kill zone, so I think the theory of hitting and obstruction on the way is the most probable reason for the miss.

[brotherinlaw]

I missed an eight point at approximately 110 yrd down hill shot. There was no way I could miss as the buck was framed between two large pines. Later, in disgust, I paced off the shot. I found a 1/2" piece of brush topped clean at approximately 85 yrds. I could not see it in the scope. I was shooting a 150 grn. 308. That why they get to eight points.

[7magWoodsman]

luckily, knock on wood, i have never suffered from buck fever.  

Luckily,knock on wood, I have never missed a deer due to "Buck-Fever" but the day I quit having "Buck-Fever" is the day I hang my head low and put the 'ol 7mag on the wall and just hunt small game and fish... :-)

[Watertrapper]

I shot at one Saturday 25m+/- with a Brenneke. She ran straight at me, I stood, aimed straight down and from less than 3m, missed her with all 15 pellets of a 00 buck load. Screwed that up royally. I'm going back tonight to try and redeem myself.

[daddywpb]

subfan,

You getting lots of good answers, but no redemption. I can help you, because I signed up on the internet to be a minister. I have the paper to prove it (available upon request). So............

Go forth my son, and shootith no more from thoust steepeth angles. Seeketh out flatness for thine shots from nowest on.

Sorry, that's the best I can do for ya. Now, give me an amen, and filleth the collection plate.

[rockbilly]

I have to agree with GB.  This looks like a classic case of Buck feaver......Been there, done that.  My question now Subfan, is the tail still in your shirt?  Hunt with the bunch I hunt with and they cut a big V in your shirt tail when you miss.  I really caught heck from the Wife the first time I came home with the big V in the back of a $25. camo shirt.  I told her to put it back in with zippers cause I knew at some point I would miss again.  Sure got a lot of comments on the way she sewed it back........

[stuffit]

subfan,
First missed shot, you had absolute confidence and hit a darn stick you couldn't see.  Second missed shot, your confidence was gone.  Wondering why the seemingly illogical miss.  Sooo... you may have shot too quickly,  jerked the trigger, or any of numerous amateur mistakes that you already knew much better than.  Or you may have hit another darn stick.  An unexplained abberation like a miss on an easy shot sends the most experienced hunter into a regressive limbo.  Been there, done that.  Shoot your rifle some.  Revel in its accuracy and your shooting skills at the targets, and, with restored confidence, go back and shoot the darn buck.
 
stuffit

[wijim]

i know this is an old thread but i just gotta comment.

in wyoming a few years ago....(totally differentterain than in wi..but that didnt really matter)...i shot a doe from one ridge to nother..it was just a bit uphill...got her good but hit quite low.  i couldnt for the life of me figure out why.  so i took a couple shots afterward just to be sure...i mean i was like 4-5" low.  well after my ranged practice sots..i was dead nuts at 100 yards.  well me n my buddies (they were givin me lotsa good natured grief) went back there to check it out...we all figured (all 6 of us) that it was 100-120 yards).....we ranged it...it was 238 yards....we were all in agreement that that rangefinder was wrong...so we got out another guy's range finder.....235 yards....a third said 236 yards...it was very very decieving....you couldnt step it off cuz it was across a gully....so it was a long walk regardless.  just food for thought.

incidently the one buddy still thinks we are all stupid to trust our range finders that are wrong...lol