Author Topic: Puma .454 / .45 Colt compatability (Read 1677 times)

Mainspring · « **on:** February 06, 2003, 06:08:17 AM »

Have any of you guys who have one of these rifles tried feeding it .45 Colt rounds? How do they feed? Any problems? I heard that stuffing .454 rounds through the loading gate can be a problem, and that it's easier to load the big boys through the end of the magazine tube and push the follower assembly down on top of the rounds...like a .22. Any truth to this?

lostinvt · « **Reply #1 on:** February 06, 2003, 08:50:57 PM »

I can only attest to what I have read, because I do not have one ... yet. The 454 can be loaded through the gate, but it is tight and tricky. Not something that you would want to have to be in a hurry to do. The 45 lc loads through the gate normally. The best way to load the big brother is to remove the magazine tube and drop the rounds in like you would on some .22 rifles. Story goes that it will hold 9 plus 1 in the chamber. 10 rounds of 454 oughta get the job done, and if it doesn't, you might want to have considered not pulling the trigger in the first place.

Been wondering about some opinions on the 454 out of a rifle. Some want to bad mouth the combo for whatever reason, and argue that it isn't as powerful as the 45-70, but it is a good light gun etc. Why is one of the hottset pistol cartridges, that takes on all creatures on the earth in a revolver such a weakling when you introduce it to a long gun. Velocity goes up, It is easier to control recoil, larger mag, more energy, longer sight radius, etc etc. I guess that some of the bullets especially the lighter ones might blow up at the higher velocity, but load accordingly, and use a premium bullet.

Don't want to argue the 45-70 against the 454, because the 45-70 is a compare all cartridge in the big bore world. I am just using it as a reference point.

Mainspring · « **Reply #2 on:** February 07, 2003, 07:22:58 AM »

I think that one of the main gripes that people have with any pistol caliber rifle is the notion that with essentially the same platform, you can get more power from a .30/30 or a .35 Rem. Personally, I think that a 20" .454 rifle would make a dandy brush gun, and since I'm working on breaking to CAS, to be able to fire .45 Colt from the same rifle would be a very good thing.

I just wonder about the Puma being able to handle the pressures of the .454 and hot .45 Colt loads like from Buffalo Bore. I also wonder what the .45 Colt would do to the chamber.

Dutch4122 · « **Reply #3 on:** February 08, 2003, 05:00:39 AM »

I've seen it mentioned other places that those who have fired the .45 Colt in the .454 Puma M-92 recommend a very good cleaning of the chamber before firing the .454 Casull cartidge. This will alleviate any problems with chambering the .454 after the .45 Colt has been fired. Not speaking from personal experience, just passing along what I have seen mentioned elsewhere.

Hope this helps,

Boss Kongoni · « **Reply #4 on:** February 08, 2003, 11:37:48 AM »

I was shooting today at the shop/range and got to see one of the LSI pumas in .454. It really is a nice little carbine. If feels very soild with good wt. distribution. Fit & finish are very nice, nicer in fact than one might expect for under $400.

Since, I already own a FA in .454, and shoot .45 LC, cor bon .45P+ and casull rounds. I think this is just what I need. :lol:

I mostly shoot the hot cor-bon so I don't see myself putting a lot of casull rounds through it anyway. It is nice to know it can if needed.

Boss Kongoni · « **Reply #5 on:** February 08, 2003, 12:33:23 PM »

I was shooting today at the shop/range and got to see one of the LSI pumas in .454. It really is a nice little carbine. If feels very soild with good wt. distribution. Fit & finish are very nice, nicer in fact than one might expect for under $400.

Since, I already own a FA in .454, and shoot .45 LC, cor bon .45P+ and casull rounds. I think this is just what I need. :lol:

I mostly shoot the hot cor-bon so I don't see myself putting a lot of casull rounds through it anyway. It is nice to know it can handle it, if needed.

Mainspring · « **Reply #6 on:** February 08, 2003, 07:06:36 PM »

Thanks for the input everyone. Like BK, I'm pretty partial to the warmer .45 Colt loads myself (Buffalo Bore), and would probably do most shooting with those anyway (CAS not withstanding), but to have the ability to also shoot low end .45/70 equivalant loads with the .454 would be a very cool thing.

Looks like this gun is officially on "The List".

Dogfoot · « **Reply #7 on:** February 09, 2003, 02:59:54 AM »

I can't get my puma to handle the 45 colt rounds just the 454 casull work. The 45 lc won't cycle. The gun jams with them. I use commercial cowboy loads 45 lc. I think magnateck or ppc. I have shot them by feding into the chamber by hand.

Dogfoot · « **Reply #8 on:** February 09, 2003, 03:08:22 AM »

I don't have any problem loading the casull cartridges through the loading port, BUT loading and unloading using the 22 style slot in the tube magazine is really slick. I like that feature very much. I used some furniture cleaner to remove all the brown crap off the stock and the wood underneath is beautiful. I put some lemon oil over the wood and left it basically unfinished. Looks great.

Boss Kongoni · « **Reply #9 on:** February 09, 2003, 03:09:49 AM »

Dogfoot - What kind of acuratcy are you seeing with the casull rounds @ 100yrds.? I fave an offer to hunt Pronghorn this fall anf thought I might use the puma on that hunt.

Have you spoke to Legacy Sports about the .45LC cycling problem?

lostinvt · « **Reply #10 on:** February 09, 2003, 01:50:10 PM »

I found a 454 at a local shop and I can pick it up for $350 cash. I am so very tempted.

If the 45 lc won't cycle in the action, does anyone have any ideas for "plinking loads" with 454 brass?? Even a "light" 454 would convince most things that you were serious. Thanks.

Mainspring · « **Reply #11 on:** February 09, 2003, 07:07:20 PM »

Dogfoot...or anyone else...tell me about this .45 Colt feeding problem. Have you contacted LSI? Has a 'smith looked at the problem?

I just put this rifle on "The (must have) List", but it can just as easly be put on another list...

ben gordon · « **Reply #12 on:** February 11, 2003, 04:45:38 PM »

Mine cycles 45 colt ok, I've shot more of it then 454. I do notice if I soft lever it the round may not feed.

Mainspring · « **Reply #13 on:** February 12, 2003, 05:02:38 AM »

Cool. Thanks Ben.

lostinvt · « **Reply #14 on:** February 12, 2003, 05:50:19 PM »

Hopefully I can do this right and post this link. The same discussion is going on at the Marlin Forum about this rifle. Quick version of what is going on over there is this though for those who do not want to try the link.

The rifle is very strong. One chap admits to accidentally using over pressure loads with the only problem being that he had a case head seperation in 2 rounds. Long story, but the gun survived...so did the shooter.

One fellow works for Cor-Bon and had to try one out. Seems he was a dis-believer, so he has been firing 2 boxes a week of Cor Bon loads through the rifle with nary a problem.

Some discussion about failure to feed with .45LC. No real consesus as to why. Could be some bad reloads, could be some bad lever handling by the user, and could be some bad rifles. General consensus is that it will feed .45lc though.

Good accuracy is reported, as well as a decent ability to handle the recoil without punishing the shooter. Sounds like it may be a winner. Go to the link for the specifics, but I think that I have to find a really nice present for my wife for Valentines day and then offer to go pick one up for myself to spare her the effort of having to go out shopping for me.

http://www.marlinfirearms.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/001367.html

http://www.marlinfirearms.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/001367.html

ben gordon · « **Reply #15 on:** February 13, 2003, 05:01:02 AM »

Lost, heckava post. The Cor-bon fellow is Terry Murbach, he is a regular on the sixgunner sites and most of those fellows were skeptical the rifle would be strong enough to hande many factory level 454 loads. I have not heard of any reports of pressure problems so far, some I have talked to have over 1000 rounds of factory pressure level loads through theirs and report no problems.

My only concern with mine is that I can't make full use of the rifles potential with their factory open sites. The only options I have found is to put a tang site on it or use a b-square mount. I don't want to do either. Of all the rifles out there I think this one begs for a scout mount which would not interfere with its excellent handling and would increase the range. I haven't found a source for one and if I ever sell mine this will be the reason.

Mainspring · « **Reply #16 on:** February 14, 2003, 04:30:58 AM »

Thanks for all the feedback everyone. It still kinda looks like I'm going to have to flip a coin to decide if one of these rifles will reliably feed .45 Colt. Seems like some do, and some don't.

Another question...with the goofy safety, is it possible/practical to mount a tang sight? Sub question: What about a receiver peep/ghost ring? My goal here is to have a CAS rifle that will happily digest .45 Colt cowboy loads, AND to have a cool brush gun in .454 in the same rifle. Is this a plausable goal?

Black Jaque Janaviac · « **Reply #17 on:** February 14, 2003, 05:15:46 AM »

If the safety is the same as my .357 Rossi then a tang sight should be simple enough. Is the safety on the .454 up on the bolt or is it on the tang?

Also see my other post regarding the reliability of feeding .45 colt ammo. The CAS shooters fix this problem regularly with their .357/.38 spls.

It also sounds like the problem mainly arises when you really jack the lever as fast as you can.

If you reload, you can always download the .454 cases. I'm doing that with .357 right now.

ben gordon · « **Reply #18 on:** February 14, 2003, 06:39:51 AM »

re tang sites I have found three sources for those rangning from 65-190 I think. I am not aware of any sources for recever sites or how you would mount it.

Grandpas tool shed makes one, marble arms and think their name is columbia something makes the higher end one. Grandpas is the cheapest but lacks the adjustments.

Black Jacque, speaking only of mine, the only time I have had a feeding problem is when I don't lever it firmly. Since for mine it was such an easy fix I really haven't bothered to look into whys and hows. Next time I shoot it I may experiment a little to see what is happening with it.

Boss Kongoni · « **Reply #19 on:** February 14, 2003, 02:39:42 PM »

Lostinvt - Thanks that link it was an interesting read with good info. I've spoken with Terry @ Cor-bon in the past. The man knows his stuff. I figure if anyone can toast this carbine it will be Terry. :wink:

I'm very close to buying this puma, and why not? What else can you spend $400 on and have so much fun? :grin:

lostinvt · « **Reply #20 on:** February 14, 2003, 03:04:06 PM »

No problem...got lucky surfing and found some information that others wanted. Figured out how to post the link so it was pretty easy to share.

Everything that I have heard is that IF you have problems with loading the 45LC, you can probably get it to smooth out with a little work and be all set. If you want a 100% guarantee that the gun will work out of the box, I'd probably pass on this carbine.

I think that the 454 lever is such a neat idea, with the possibilty of using cheaper 45LC ammo, that the benefits outweighs the risk involved. Just re-reaing that and I sound like a junk bond salesman, but It kinda sums up my personal feelings.

I got the impression that if anyone was going to give an honest opinion, and have the resources to break the rifle with factory ammo Terry would have been the person. Seems like he is kinda pleased with the product, and I tend to add credence with what he says just because the company he works for puts out a decent product.

The one question that I have not seen answered yet is about the safety. For those still wondering the safety is located on the bolt. Tang sights are a possibility with this rifle, but I think that you might find that the rifle becomes a little awkward with them mounted. I do not have an answer yet, but I do plan on replacing the sights when mine comes in. That's a whole nother discussion.

I have one question for anyone who might have heard. I saw a Puma 454 online the other day and it was described as "hard chromed" for about $130 more than a blued version. Is this the "stainless version that Rossi was planning on introducing this year, or did someone re-finish one??

Thanks for the info. Anyone had enough of this cold weather...28 below this morning. Later

Dogfoot · « **Reply #21 on:** February 22, 2003, 01:49:53 AM »

Mainspring: I haven't sent mine back or even contacted legacy about the 45 lc feeding problem. I bought it to shoot 454s so I'm not concerned.

I put a firesight up front but kept the rear factory sight. I'd be interested in a rear peep but don't know where you would mount one. I like tang sights because the close eye relief works out good with my failing eyesight, but don't like not being able to wrap your thumb comfortably around the tang. I think the open sights are probably adquate for what I plan on using the gun for.

Dogfoot

Mainspring · « **Reply #22 on:** February 22, 2003, 07:54:15 PM »

Thanks for the input everyone. For now, this rifle/carbine is on my short list. I'm still going to wait for a while to get more field results...not to mention replenishing the sock fund.

For those of you who are planning on getting one, I'd sure appreciate any info that you have once you put yours through the paces.

Thanks again.