Author Topic: What's a good method of powder dispensing? (Read 1356 times)

handirifle · « **on:** June 11, 2005, 05:54:19 PM »

I have a flask, but have read not to pour straihgt from it to the muzzle, for loading. If that is true, then what is the best way to put a fairly precise measured charge in the barrel?

Any reference to a site that might have pics would be especially helpful.

ktw · « **Reply #1 on:** June 11, 2005, 06:02:52 PM »

Track of the Wolf has a wide range of interchangable spouts for flasks

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/categories/tableList.aspx?catID=1&subID=11&styleID=34

Or you can pour flask --> adjustable powder measure --> rifle.

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/categories/partList.aspx?catID=1&subID=13&styleID=49

I don't think charging a weapon directly from a small to medium sized flask is a big problem. I would avoid charging directly from a 1lb can of powder.

Keith Lewis · « **Reply #2 on:** June 11, 2005, 07:31:49 PM »

I usually measure out (actually I weigh my charges based on a weight established from several volume measures of the powder) and put the powder in small plastic bottles that just fit the bore of my .50 cal and fit losely in my .54 cal rifle. I can cap the bottles and store several in my range box for shooting at the range. When hunting I use the T/C quick load plastic holders that work the same way. I can mark the bottles with the charge weight (or volume) and the type of powder using a felt tip marker if more than one is being used the same day That way I am always shooting a very accurate measure of powder and am never exposing more than the single charge to the bore of the rifle at any time. This is not period accurate but seems to work better than any of the dispensers that I have tried. I also have less chance of spilling powder which is easier to do from a measure. The bottles are inexpensive and available from a local plastic company and can be reused several times.

sharps4590 · « **Reply #3 on:** June 12, 2005, 01:40:15 AM »

I've been pouring it from a horn into a brass or deer antler measure then down the bore for 30 years now. I believe this method has been in use for a while and has always proven saitsfactory for me.

Vic

Charcoal · « **Reply #4 on:** June 12, 2005, 10:45:13 AM »

Quote from: ktw

I don't think charging a weapon directly from a small to medium sized flask is a big problem. I would avoid charging directly from a 1lb can of powder.

NEVER NEVER NEVER pour powder from a horn,flask or powder can into the barrel or cylinder of a BP gun.1lb of powder is a small bomb,an 4-8oz small flask is a grenade.

This is one of the major violations of BP shooting.ALWAYS USE A POWDER MEASURE!! to pour the powder into barrel or cylinder.

I have seen a powder flask blow from the above listed violation.The Civil War/War of Northern Aggression reenactor still has powder stippiling up his right hand/arm to this day.He was very lucky and no digits lost,but many small metal fragments lodged in his hand.Painfull recovery.

ALWAYS use a powder MEASURE,paper cartridges,or those new fangled one-shot all-in one jobbers(eewww).

http://www.tcarms.com/mlaccessories/measurers/index.php
http://www.tcarms.com/mlaccessories/loadimp/index.php
http://www.possibleshop.com/powder-measure.htm
http://www.oct-country.com/

sharps4590 · « **Reply #5 on:** June 12, 2005, 02:29:16 PM »

I can't agree strongly enough with charcoal. Load only from a measure, NOT from a horn, can, flask or any other container. This must be strongly emphasized.

Vic

roundball · « **Reply #6 on:** June 12, 2005, 02:36:50 PM »

Quote from: handirifle

I have a flask, but have read not to pour straihgt from it to the muzzle, for loading. If that is true, then what is the best way to put a fairly precise measured charge in the barrel?

Any reference to a site that might have pics would be especially helpful.

For weekend range trips, I use 35mm film canisters with charges I premeasure into them before I go to the range;

For hunting, I use TC's 4-N-1 Quick Shots;

ktw · « **Reply #7 on:** June 12, 2005, 06:24:31 PM »

Quote from: Charcoal

NEVER NEVER NEVER pour powder from a horn,flask or powder can into the barrel or cylinder of a BP gun.

I humbly retract what, in hindsight, appears to have been very bad advice. I appreciate the corrections added to the thread subsequant to my earlier post.

It does, however, raise the question of just how common it is for powder to light off as it is being introdcued to the barrel. I'd be interested in hearing from thjose who've been shooting muzzleloaders for many years as to whether this is a) a common ocurance (happens every couple of hundred loads), b) a rare occurance (happened once or twice over many years) or c) is theoretically possible ("I read on the internet about a guy who knew a guy....")

Not trying to rationalize my bad advice here, just seems to me like you stand a good chance of some nasty burns regardless of how you are charging the firearm. I'd like to get a better idea of the risk of that happening.

-ktw

Charles/NM · « **Reply #8 on:** June 13, 2005, 05:32:37 AM »

I use a brass adjustable measure with a funnel attached with a screw. The funnel rotates over the end of the measure, wipes off extra powder and gives a consistent load.

williek · « **Reply #9 on:** June 13, 2005, 06:44:02 AM »

Let us say it only happens on an average of once in ten thousand times. Would you still do it? It really is your choice and no one else's.
If you choose to, where in the string of ten thousand is it going to happen? It could be the second shot.
I"m not addressing this to anyone who has written here, but only want to provide some thoughtful questions.
I have been shooting since 1975 and have never seen this happen, but I still wipe between shots before I pour powder down the barrel. I do this primarily for accuracy, but also because I want to remove ALL chance of a live spark in the barrel.
Safe shooting to you all,
williek

Charcoal · « **Reply #10 on:** June 13, 2005, 10:12:18 AM »

KTW,wasnt tryin to flame/slam you.My only concern was to save anyone some serious injury or even death,its a SERIOUS SAFETY ISSUE.

The reason we use a measure is to reduce the powder charge to the one we will be using.A charge in the 10-120 grain, range,depending on your weapon application,if it were to go off,is better than 8-16 oz.

I have been shooting BP since 1983.I have never seen a weapon discharge as it was being charged with powder,except for the above mentioned flask incident.It seems old man Murphy has a way of striking when we have stacked everything NOT in our favor.

I have seen plenty of other firearm "accidents".These were all preventable if basic firearm safety protcols were followed.BP guns have a few extra protocols over fixed metallic cartridge guns.Civil war reenacting societies have safety protocols for a reason.Not worming and mopping artillery between shots or not using powder charges in triple wrapped aluminum foil increments is ASKING FOR IT.This is but one example.

Yes,IMHO it is possible for even a small powder charge to ignite.How often does this occur,I dont know,I really dont want it to happen to me,so I stack everthing in my favor.

Here are 4 simple firearm safety commandments I live by,so should everyone else.

#1 ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED
a)only the weapon you have manually and visually checked is now unloaded.Turn your back or walk away and come back,its loaded again CHECK IT AGAIN.

#2 KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET

#3 NEVER LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT PREPARED TO DESTROY

#4 BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET AND WHAT IS BEYOND IT

Longcruise · « **Reply #11 on:** June 13, 2005, 11:35:56 AM »

Quote

I have a flask, but have read not to pour straihgt from it to the muzzle, for loading. If that is true, then what is the best way to put a fairly precise measured charge in the barrel?

Handi, Is there no end to your danged troublemaking?? :-D

The measure described with the adjustable feature and the funnel on the swivel is the best you will find for the range.

Also, once you pour your powder from your flask, horn or can or whatevcer, make sure there is is cover over the powder container before you set the whole thing off. Powder cans, horns, etc., have all been set off by a flying particle of a cap or fire venting from a flint lock.

A shooter at a shoot I attended some years back was loading from a powder horn which he forgot to put the stopper back into after pouring to his measure. Gun went of and so did the powder horn!!! :eek: He was relatively unharmed, probably because he was wearing leather.

lostid · « **Reply #12 on:** June 13, 2005, 02:15:14 PM »

I've seen it once.
It was during a speed shoot, 'bout 85,,, feller was using onna them pre-measured load tubes threaded to his horn with the valve thing?!! Well, long story short, the 1/2 pound of powder went off. The brass chards took off his index finger, they just couldn't save it, the rest of his hand only took percusion injury.. I still know the guy ,,he's a pressman at a local plant,, he does his job, good provider,..

Quote from: handirifle

If that is true, then what is the best way to put a fairly precise measured charge in the barrel?

Back in the day,,when a feller bought a rifle,,he got with it', a powder measure. The measure was the best load the maker proved for the rifle.(by "volume")

handi? well, a feller can use a hole drilled in horn just so deep,,or a plugged hollow bone cut just right, or a handfull "just that big !", or a brass measure ,,or,,??
?? or he can just pour right out of the horn,,,,,,,hhmmm,,,

sharps4590 · « **Reply #13 on:** June 13, 2005, 02:58:30 PM »

I've been shooting black powder in one kind of firearm or another since '75 or '76 and I've never seen a measure of powder ignite while being loaded. Nor do I personally know anyone it has happened to. Over the years I've shot in many, many matches with literally thousands of people and I've never seen it happen. I am grateful. I'm simply not willing to take the chance that "it won't happen to me". It's one of the cardinal rules in muzzleloading that you never charge from a container. If a person doesn't take that chance, there is no chance of an incident, it certainly can't be called an accident.

I certainly wasn't ridiculing anyone and I'm glad to see it wasn't taken as ridicule. I also don't want anyone hurt in a sport I dearly love if it can be prevented. That's a great thing about forums such as this, everyone can learn something.

Vic

crazy frenchman · « **Reply #14 on:** June 13, 2005, 03:27:00 PM »

:-D :-D It must be the weather up here in the East, but just why do some people just don't get the point of rules. Why is it a standing rule that NO LOADING FROM ANY POWDER CANTAINER or HORN is to be done! Powder is to be ONLY loaded from a measure of some type. This rule is one that is inforched at all national and state shoots that I have been to. When one wants to do his or her thing, generally that is when one is just asked to LEAVE.

handirifle · « **Reply #15 on:** June 13, 2005, 09:38:38 PM »

Well that for sure removed any doubt of pouring from the flask. :wink:

Longcruise,
Hey, inquiring minds wanna know! :grin:

How does one make a paper cartridge. I like that idea, especially for a hunt. Any links?

dlemaster · « **Reply #16 on:** June 14, 2005, 01:42:41 AM »

handirifle
I generally use paper penny wrappers to carry pre-measured powder charges when hunting. glue one end, insert a weighed charge, fold over and a spot of glue closes the other end.
To load, just bite and tear off one end (like Civil War soldiers did) pour in the charge, then load bullet or ball.
Very simple.

egards, Dave

Longcruise · « **Reply #17 on:** June 14, 2005, 04:37:01 AM »

Handi, I've never made the premeasured "cartridges", but have friends who do so by making a paper tube on a piece of dowell wood of the appropriate diameter. Glue the bottom shut, pour the powder and twist the top is how they seem to do it.

This is a method that has been used for hundreds of years and still going strong. Hmmm.....Maybe I oughta try it!

Charcoal · « **Reply #18 on:** June 14, 2005, 01:55:38 PM »

Here is some primer on paper cartridges.You can can use the proper black powder of your choice for your needs,most folks who make them are F&I,Rev and Civil war reenactors making blanks.

If its going to be a "consumable" cartridge,meaning burned in the barrel,chamber,use nitrated paper.The paper cartridge is the original pre-measured powder charge.

Find yourself a copper buddy,they can supply you with plenty of ZIG-ZAG paper.These work great for cap and ball revolvers,seat ball on top of paper powder cartridge.You only need a short pigtail on these to keep paper cartridge closed.I still have a lifetime supply from my flatfoot days :grin: .

http://www.serve.com/rbriggs/couriers/9-96/cartridge.html

http://www.17thmicoe.org/Paper%20Cartridges.htm

handirifle · « **Reply #19 on:** June 15, 2005, 04:36:46 PM »

Good feedback and info. Thanks. Now, would the paper wrapping on a ball in said cartridge, work as a patch? If you made one that you poured the powder from, them tore away all but the wrapping of the ball and pushed the ball down, would that work? Seems like a paper patched bullet for the BPCR.

Along the same lines, would it work for a conical that way?

Charchol
Thanks for the links. What is nitrated paper? Zig zag paper isn't nitrated is it? I re-read your post and it seems you already answered my paper patch question.

handirifle · « **Reply #20 on:** June 15, 2005, 04:40:07 PM »

Is another name for nitrated paper, flash paper, like magicans use?

sharps4590 · « **Reply #21 on:** June 16, 2005, 12:47:41 AM »

handi, nitrated paper is paper treated with nitrates so that it is consumed when the rifle is fired. I used to have a recipe for making it but don't know where I have it. I'm confident someone on here or other websites has a recipe they can lay their hands on. I believe the advantage of cigarette papers is that they are consumed without nitrating. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. ZIG-ZAG is available in grocery stores and I've seen it at Wal-Marts.

Th paper wouldn't serve as a patch for a round ball. It would serve as wadding between the powder and the projectile. If you're shooting RB you're still going to have to patch it for any degree of accuracy. Paper patched bullets in BPC rifles are a considerably different animal. The rifling in those rifles is more shallow than a muzzleloader and it's also a faster twist. Obviously the bullet is longer, often much longer, and the paper used is considerably thicker and stronger than the paper used in paper cartidges.

Vic

Charcoal · « **Reply #22 on:** June 16, 2005, 09:47:35 AM »

Handi,Sharps pretty well covered your question.Flash paper for paper cartridges..hhhmm Ive never used it in cartridges,I believe it is nitrated with nitric acid.I would stick to using the traditional nitrated paper.Nitrated paper is available from Dixie Gun Works or you can make your own using Potassium Nitrate.

You only need nitrated paper if making "consumable" cartridges like those used in percussion Sharps Rifles,or used as a pre-measured powder charge like those used by alot of CAS shooters in their CB revolvers.

Like Sharps said,the paper would NOT be used to patch a RB or conical,use a proper woven cloth patch and your favorite patch lube with RBs.Again Sharps scored an X-ring by stating that "paper patched" boolits are a TOTALLY different animal,check out the paper patched boolit forum.

Just to recap:A traditional paper cartridge would contain a pre-measured powder charge and either a RB or conical(Minnie ball).The cartridge would be torn open and the powder dumped into the barrel or cylinders.The projectile would be torn out of the paper and seated by using a patch for RBs in rifles or using a conical no patch,CB revolvers the ball/conical would be seated with no patch.The remaining paper is properly discarded into your pocket,possible bag,not on the ground.

ZIG-ZAG and other cigarette rolling papers are nitrated,at least all the brands ive used.Yes,they are commonly found anywhere that sell tobacco products.

http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?products_id=1759

http://www.dixiegunworks.com/advanced_search_result.php?osCsid=225949daf65126213789064480d6f00f&osCsid=225949daf65126213789064480d6f00f&keywords=nitrated+paper&x=3&y=9

handirifle · « **Reply #23 on:** June 16, 2005, 01:08:18 PM »

Thanks guys. Since I'm shooting both RB and conicals, I'll not worry about making consumables then. Still the paper setup is a lot easier way to carry a ready load for the field.

Got some shooting to do this weekend.

Longcruise · « **Reply #24 on:** June 16, 2005, 05:23:52 PM »

Quote

Still the paper setup is a lot easier way to carry a ready load for the field.

If you don't care about PC (period correct), then the Butler Creek speed loader is the simplest solution. Come in a pack of three. Push the ball or conical in one end bottom down and put the attached cover on then flip over and put your measured powder charge in the other end and put the cover on it. When it's time to reload you open the powder end and pour it in and then put the loader over the end of the barrel and push the conical or prp down the barrel with your short starter.

I've left these loaded for up to three years in my shooting box and loaded them up and shot just like they were fresh! :grin:

handirifle · « **Reply #25 on:** June 17, 2005, 04:49:14 PM »

Longcruise
I picked up a set of those yesterday. I also got a cleaning jag but it doesn't fit any thing I have. There were out of range rods, so I need to look at the other shop soon.

Longcruise · « **Reply #26 on:** June 18, 2005, 11:41:01 AM »

Homemade range rod recipe:

Ingrediants
1. 3/8" steel rod cold rolled or stainless of length to suit your need (home depot)
2. one round hardwood ball (hobby/craft store) or an old brass door knob or

3. One bore guide to fit caliber with 3/8" hole in center [(if no trad shops in area, order from Log Cabin Shop or Track of The Wolf while your at it, order their catalogs loads of interesting stuff just begging to be used as a solution to present and future problems

) use Google]
4. One brass ramrod tip with 3/8" ID and 10-32 or 8-32 threads (Same source as rod guide recommend 10-32 for strength)

Epoxy your chosen handle to one end. It's a good idea to score the rod before you glue it into the 3/8" hole in the handle. Slide the bore guide onto the rod and and then glue the ramrod tip onto the end of the steel rod, scoring as with the handle. You can also drill a small hole through the tip and the rod after glueing and use a brass nail as a rivet for additional holding strength. The OD of the ramrod tip will prevent the bore guide from sliding off the end. VOILA!! A range rod. Cheaper and more fun than buying.

I found several old marble door knobs at a garage sale that I've used for handles and they are working out just fine.

This will not give you a rotating handle as some rods do, but then again it does not seem to be necessary.

crow_feather · « **Reply #27 on:** June 18, 2005, 10:33:20 PM »

If you can find one, a fifty caliber machine gun cleaning rod works extremely well. Take a tap to the tip that to change the thread to 10/32 and your are ready for anything that may come along. Used to cost about 5 to 10 dollars.

C F