Author Topic: What a rotten lousy day at the range (Read 927 times)

Greybeard · « **on:** February 23, 2003, 01:53:27 PM »

Yuck what a rotten lousy day I had at the range today. :roll:

Went thru all four of the new guns today trying to get them cleaned up and smoothed up some on the shotgun as it was so hard to open I couldn't believe it was by the same maker as the 28 ga. I traded on it.

Then out to my range. First up was one of the Dakotas with last three digits of serial number being 491. First I fired it with Hornady Cowboy ammo and it shot to left about 5" at 15 yards. Not good but can probably be lived with on targets as big as you've told me they are. Next up I fired it with the Black Hills Cowboy ammo. WHOA! Clean off the paper left and the base pin was barely hanging in after firing. Nope light loads. Recoil was extremely mild with all. I put the base pin back in laid it aside and took up the one with last three digits of SN 526.

Now I first tried #526 with the Black Hills ammo as that is the box that was open. Before I finished the five shots the base pin fell to ground. Arrgh! I worked more on both guns and finally got them to where the pins will stay in for five shots but I'd sure not wanna bet on 10 shots. Now I've owned a Dakota before and it WASN'T like this. Both action are quite rough and are gonna need more work also. To say I'm not happy would be an understandment.

OK so I laid the handguns aside and loaded up the rifle. Hartford Model 92. A Rossi Winchester Model 92 Clone. Loaded Black Hills ammo. It shot well to point of aim and accurately enogh for free hand shooting at what passes for me as rapid fire. Meaning you can time me with a calendar.

But the action was pretty rough and hesitant and not at all smooth like it will need to be if I'm gonna actually try to pretend I'm firing rapidly. It did feed well on the brighter side.

Didn't fire the shotgun. Stoeger 20 ga. SXS Uplander. It is still the stiffest opening shotgun I've ever owned even after much work with JB Paste and time and effort. Fast ain't gonna happen with it for now. Not sure I even have any shells loaded up for 20 ga. Will have to search and maybe load some if I have enough components to do so or buy a box.

Pards it ain't looking good for my debut next Sunday. I'll be there but the guns ain't ready and ain't gonna be ready by then. It will be a pitiful performance at best but maybe I can look good doing it.

Oh well nobody said it wuz gonna be easy. Still this is the most pitiful excuse for function in this many new guns as I've ever seen and in my almost 50 year shooting career I've owned what has to be approaching 500 or so of them.

GB

Cheyenne Ranger · « **Reply #1 on:** February 23, 2003, 02:20:10 PM »

I'm speaking out of turn here as I'm talking about a CAS club I don't attend, but I gotta believe if you show up you will have offers of pistols, rifles, shotguns, leather, ammo and the like just waiting on you.

Your shotgun sounds like my pard's, brand new and he has problems just opening it. And Tracker is a big, beefy guy that makes firing .45LC look like .22 rounds going off in the gun.

Good luck with the shoot irons. Keep us posted.
CR

ButlerFord45 · « **Reply #2 on:** February 23, 2003, 03:16:47 PM »

Ranger, I'm sure that SOMEONE will have a pair of RUGERS he can use!! :-D :-D :-D

Now that I've gotten in my little rib

Marshal, I hate to hear that you got new guns in that condition, but you sure look good haulin'em around in that new cart and them new holsters!! :-D :-D :-D

Ok, so I had to get in two ribs :oops:

I kinda feel like the recruit going through sniper training asking Gunny if he knows how to pull the trigger, BUT,

Marshal, you are aware that most right handed people shoot left with a saa?? With that little trigger and being off center? Seriously, it seems that the more experienced the shooter, the more the problem. I BELIEVE it has to do with muscle-memory-trigger-squeeze. The trigger is not where it belongs and the entire gun is "pushed" away as the trigger is being squeezed.

I doubt that was the problem, but feel I would be remiss in my responsiblities if I didn't at least mention it

Hokay, this one is helpful http://www.northcarolinacowboys.com/TheRossi92.htm
but the one at cascity.com is down, they are moving, when it is back up ya need to look at the "rossi92fix" article. Its the best I've seen. easy to follow and works like a charm

I can't help with the shotgun, if you want url's I can give'em to you, but I have never tried any of them.

I hope I'm not coming across as talking down, I'm not, just going over everything I can think of.
New SAA's have to be taken down and detail cleaned, even Colt, and this is from experience. Lot's of grit that should have been cleaned out normally isn't. A thickness or two from an old leather boot or shoe cut into a washer to go under the mainspring where it screws to the grip frame. This will lighten the hammer and the trigger pull. A little bit of valve lapping compound between trigger and hammer, cock, pull trigger, repeat several times, should smooth the trigger sear and the hammer notch with out getting things out of whack. Be sure to clean out the lapping compound when your done!

I shoot 20ga, I should have plenty if you don't get the opportunity to get your own.

I'm really dissappointed things went the way they did, but if they're the two bad guns out of a thousand, I'm glad you got'em instead of some new shooter. YOu can make them work, but I sure hate to see TWO bad guns in one delivery!!

Goatlips · « **Reply #3 on:** February 23, 2003, 03:23:48 PM »

No such thing!

Goatlips

ButlerFord45 · « **Reply #4 on:** February 23, 2003, 03:53:25 PM »

:-D Goatlips, I understant that!!

GB, On the base pin, are the two pieces of the base pin retaining pin screwed together tight? With the base pin removed how much of the big part of the retaining pin is in the hole in the frame where the basepin goes? I have a pair of colts that there is only a small nic of the retaining pin sticking through, I believe they weren't drilled deep enough, it should be almost halfway through. I think belt mountain makes a heavier spring to try and overcome this problem. It is not uncommon. That dont make it right, but it is still happens

Holiday · « **Reply #5 on:** February 23, 2003, 04:16:50 PM »

Sorry to hear your problems, pard, but Butler's advice sounds right on the money. And don't worry about malfunctions on the range and how you'll look. We all have them, especially with new guns. Just come on down and join in on the fun. I'll e-mail ya Friday or Saturday to see if you want to meet up before heading over to the range.

Greybeard · « **Reply #6 on:** February 23, 2003, 08:22:09 PM »

Butler.

Yes I've heard the stories about shooting left with single actions. Could be. I didn't spend a lot of time or effort on these today as I spend most of today working on the guns. BUT with my other Dakota that exhibited none of the problems of these two EXCEPT the left shooting I did work with it at length. Didn't matter if I shot it right handed with one hand, using both hands shooting with either hand as gun holding hand or left handed using one hand. Point of impact in relation to point of aim was the same. To me that said the shooter wasn't the problem. I really don't think I was today but I didn't shoot a lot because of the gun troubles.

Yes when I went back to my bench to put the pin back in after it fell I check to see if the retaining pin was properly in place. It wasn't. Took a bunch of turing to get it as it should be. On the other gun it took maybe one full turn. With that out of the way I was able to get off a full cylinder full without pin coming out but I'm still not sure that's gonna do it.

Yes I have to spend more time with the guns and take them down and do the standard tricks to fix them. Real shame as my other Dakota had none of these problems other than the point of impact problem. I knew I should have kept that gun but was really hoping that EMF would turn the barrel and fix it for me. When they wouldn't I could have said return it but instead told them return a new one which I swapped for the SS Bisley Ruger Limited Edition with 5.5" barrel.

I'll get the guns all fixed but I don't think time is likely gonna allow me to get it done before the week end. Guess it depends on when we open the store but still I'll likely make do first shoot and then get them in line before the following one. Don't think anything is wrong I can't fix. Just need time to spend on them doing it.

Before I tear into the Rossi I do want a parts diagram and some guidance as I've never torn one down. I'm sure I'll find it on the net maybe in the link you gave me. Haven't looked yet. The double I know how to fix it is just gonna take time. If I go too fast I may take off too much and ya can't put it back when ya take it off.

None of it is anything I can deal with just exasperating that I have to deal with it on all four of them picked up this past week. Even I don't usually have that much bad luck and if it weren't for bad luck I'd have no luck at all.

Yeah Holiday I'd like us to meet up somewhere and me follow you on the rest of way. I think you mentioned a store in a previous e-mail? I'm pretty sure I have that e-mail in my hold file. Faye is coming along with me. She want's to meet her new found cousin Butler. :eek:

GB

Shootin' Carts Jimmy · « **Reply #7 on:** February 24, 2003, 07:41:06 AM »

Graybeard,
Sorry to hear you had so many problems at the range with your new guns. If there is a silver lining to this cloud you're caryin', I guess it's better to get most of these problems out of the way, or at least identified, at the range instead of at your first cowboy shoot.

Looking forward to seeing pictures of you in action this weekend. Make sure someone takes a camera to record the eveidence

jimmy

Holiday · « **Reply #8 on:** February 24, 2003, 04:08:58 PM »

Graybeard, as far as the Rossi goes, Schematics for a Winchester 92 are real close since the Rossi is a clone of the Winchester, in case you can't locate a diagram of a Rossi. I may have one here as I used to have Rossi Puma. Yeah, we can meet up at Wal-Mart in Boaz, its real easy to find. I'll send directions by e-mail. I saw the long range forcast and it looks cold for the morning, but the day promises to warm up. Here's to hoping! :-D

Greybeard · « **Reply #9 on:** February 24, 2003, 06:17:56 PM »

Holiday (and info for you too Butler) tonight the forecast for Sunday is a low of 35 warming to 60 with sunshine. Not too bad if it happens like that.

GB

Cuts Crooked · « **Reply #10 on:** February 24, 2003, 11:40:51 PM »

Ain't got any advise except concerning the Rossi. And I wch the CAS city sight was up and running because Bull Schmitt's article is the best I've found anywhere for dealing with them.

Anyway, the single best thing you can do to a Rossi is to lighten the ejector spring! that little tiny thing is what causes most of the pressure you feel when working the lever. It's the resistance you feel just as you open the action and the same resistance you feel just as it is about to close. Factory Stock Rossi's tend to throw thier empties clean into the next county because of that little spring!

This is a cut & try job and a danged tedious one to do. It ain't difficult, but it does require a complete strip down of the action, cut one coil off the spring, put it back together and try it, then tear it down again for another coil snip, until you get what yer after.......THEN STOP! If you go too far, yer gonna have to get a new one! :eek:

BTW, there are some aftermarket spring kits out there for Rossi guns, but I've read mixed reviews on thier quality and effectiness.

Good luck Pard! I hope things start getting better fer ya with the CAS guns!

Capt Hamp Cox · « **Reply #11 on:** February 25, 2003, 02:35:49 AM »

Here's probably more than you'll need on your Rossi.

http://www.northcarolinacowboys.com/TheRossi92.htm
http://www.marauder13.homestead.com/files/RossiDis.html
http://www.marauder13.homestead.com/files/Rossitune.htm
http://www.marauder13.homestead.com/files/Rossiprt.htm
http://www.urban-armory.com/diagrams/rossi92.htm

Old Cane · « **Reply #12 on:** February 25, 2003, 10:27:29 AM »

Hamp you beat me to it.

GB, one more thing, Wolff Spring Kit. I know, I'm the same way. They are new and they should work. It seems like nowadays if they go bang they go out the door. The Wolff set comes with the mainspring, trigger spring, ejector spring and a heavier cross-ping/base-pin spring....whatever it's called. It really helped my Uberti. I'm not naive enough to call it an action job in a bag but for $25 it was money well spent and I hate to spend money. From there, let the smoothing begin. I have not had a 92 but if my 66 and 73 are any example it won't take but a few hundred (2-300) rounds to beging to smooth out.