Open letter to the NRA Silhouette Committee......

[Medbill]

Thanks Nomad, just what I thought.  

Man that must have been a great match!  Does anyone have the break down of the classes and what was used etc?  I love to read all that good stuff.  Wish I could have made it, there's always next year.

Billy

[Hornetx60]

sillywetshooter now why would you attack me ? did I say something about You? Tell me something, Why are you using a "Tuned " gun in the sporter class? This class is for UNALTERED Factory guns.  So unless your gun was "Tuned" with all factory parts it can not be used in the Sporter class. Now how many spring gun shooters have been using guns that don't meet the requirement of the rule? Because the first thing that most spring gun shooters say ya have to do is have them tuned and put in a Maccari spring............Doesn't sound factory to me sounds to me like your gun is really an open class gun. Nw keep your attacks to your self.

[GeoNLR]

Hi Dave,

Nothing to be scared about at all, everyone's thoughts matter and honestly I don't bite.

You stated my case perfectly about spring guns being harder to shoot and too much work to learn to shoot well (for some people).  That's what happened to you, didn't happen to me.  Do you have a match rifle to compete with in match rifle class?  How about Open?  My first adult PCP sporter air gun set me back a 1k (FX2000) including the scuba tank and fittings.  I'd love to know where a good, accurate PCP can be found and someone can get into the precharge game for $200.  The closest I know of is the AAS200.  If there is one out there (NOT FROM CHINA) I wanna buy one to have it on hand at matches!

I'd like to know if anyone keeps track of the break down of number of shooters in each classification.  Just to see how much of a paper work nightmare those that are against a PCP Sporter class say match directors are up against by having a new class.  My bet, hardly any.  Most guys I've seen shoot either Open or Sporter with a spring gun.  I've only been to one match where a shooter was using a low powered match rifle.

Thanks for your thoughts Dave and glad your enjoying the game.  If the rule does change there is still a place for you to shoot, its in the open class.

Billy

TX200 .177 Beech Right Hand (SPRINGER)
$479.00

S400 H .177 Beech Right Hand (PCP)
$532.00

= $53 difference
Used Tank w/ fresh stat = $85 (any local dive shop)
Used fill adaptor = $85

$233 difference between springer and PCP WITH air tank. Both used figgures were real from tank I am using and air gun classifieds on the adaptor. Pump is cheaper under $200 difference WITH AIR...Like Mr. Imas was saying...

As far as the open in winnie this year. There was more people because it was on Friday and not Thursday... Friday was the day the smallbore started...any air rifle match held that day woud have had the highest attendance. The TX guys putting it together did however put the panning into seeing that the highest # of people woud be there on Friday and Open is the class that the highest # of rifles fall in.

VERY few springers were on the line for sporter. Not everyone had the $1400 rifles..there were plenty of AA and Daystate, knock off's, etc. Great time was had by all.

Keep in mind the air rifle targets are scaled to 1/2 small bore but closer than 1/2 the distance...that = FUN!

Target class is the best (IMHO). Those rifles on rams are a blast, I don't care who you are!

Chicken


PS> Billy, there wil always be a place for Dave to shoot... It's called "Match Winner"..Wheeeeeeeeee....

[Medbill]

Chicken and Dave,

Sorry I missed the "more" after $200, totally disregard what I said about where can I find one for $200 bucks.

Here are some prices from Pomona Air, great guy to do business with and he will match any advertised price.

AirArms Rifles Price
TX 200 1.77 & .22 Caliber beechwood $469.00 -  Free Shipping
S 410 CARBINE Beechwood - rifle pictured in walnut $610.00 - Free Shipping
S 410 CLASSIC Beechwood - rifle pictured in walnut $630.00 - Free Shipping
New!! S410ERB New Beech Stock/Power Adjust/Safety  $735.00 - Free Shipping
S 400ERB .177 & 22 beechwood  - rifle pictured in Beech $618.00 - Free Shipping
New!! TDR 12 ft.lb. Take Down Rifle & Case $765.00 - Free Shipping
EV-2 Call - Free Shipping Case
S200 $430 - Free Shipping

Charging Adapter $90
Hill Pump $225 - Dry Pac Extra

Big difference between a TX200 and a S410.  My first time out with my HW-97 I shot a master class score with it down at Delran.  It can be done out of the box.  A tune is nice but not needed, Russ Best offers a "silhouette tune" using all factory parts.  I'll wait till my spring goes before I go that route since its shooting good enough now.  No matter how you slice is, PCP is a heavier initial layout.  Prices quoted above do no include the fill adapter.  Probably the best intro PCP rifle is the S200 and it will do the job very well.  Great for smaller framed shooters too.

Billy

[K2]

Hi George

If the springers are no longer showing up because of the rule change that sort of proves the point of instant obsolescence by the stroke of the pen.  Someone who is already in the game and competitive with a springer prior to the rule change is now faced with a few choices.  1. get beat more often by the new improved equipment.  2.  Buy the new improved equipment of which few will argue that the $1300 + PCP is the best way to go competitively.  3.  Stop shooting where they no longer can compete.  

Perhaps more are taking option 3?  The smarter way to go is to leave the Spring class as it was and create a new PCP hunter class.  This way someone doesn't need to spend lots of $ just to stay even.  Silhouette has had a problem with this type of instant obsolescence by rule change and it might be a reason for the sports small participation compared to some other shooting sports.  I know that I would not be happy if a year or two ago I invested in an expensive springer that complied with the rules at the time only to have it be instantly worth very much less (not much used market for obsolete equipment) by the stroke of the pen.  

I still say the smarter way to have gone was to leave a spring only class and add an additional PCP.  If down the road the spring class faded away then it could be eliminated.  To do so earlier shows disrespect for those who were invested in the game and playing by the rules.  

Everyone knows the top of the line PCP's are easier to shoot on average over the best springer.  

Hi Dave,

Nothing to be scared about at all, everyone's thoughts matter and honestly I don't bite.

You stated my case perfectly about spring guns being harder to shoot and too much work to learn to shoot well (for some people).  That's what happened to you, didn't happen to me.  Do you have a match rifle to compete with in match rifle class?  How about Open?  My first adult PCP sporter air gun set me back a 1k (FX2000) including the scuba tank and fittings.  I'd love to know where a good, accurate PCP can be found and someone can get into the precharge game for $200.  The closest I know of is the AAS200.  If there is one out there (NOT FROM CHINA) I wanna buy one to have it on hand at matches!

I'd like to know if anyone keeps track of the break down of number of shooters in each classification.  Just to see how much of a paper work nightmare those that are against a PCP Sporter class say match directors are up against by having a new class.  My bet, hardly any.  Most guys I've seen shoot either Open or Sporter with a spring gun.  I've only been to one match where a shooter was using a low powered match rifle.

Thanks for your thoughts Dave and glad your enjoying the game.  If the rule does change there is still a place for you to shoot, its in the open class.

Billy

TX200 .177 Beech Right Hand (SPRINGER)
$479.00

S400 H .177 Beech Right Hand (PCP)
$532.00

= $53 difference
Used Tank w/ fresh stat = $85 (any local dive shop)
Used fill adaptor = $85

$233 difference between springer and PCP WITH air tank. Both used figgures were real from tank I am using and air gun classifieds on the adaptor. Pump is cheaper under $200 difference WITH AIR...Like Mr. Imas was saying...

As far as the open in winnie this year. There was more people because it was on Friday and not Thursday... Friday was the day the smallbore started...any air rifle match held that day woud have had the highest attendance. The TX guys putting it together did however put the panning into seeing that the highest # of people woud be there on Friday and Open is the class that the highest # of rifles fall in.

VERY few springers were on the line for sporter. Not everyone had the $1400 rifles..there were plenty of AA and Daystate, knock off's, etc. Great time was had by all.

Keep in mind the air rifle targets are scaled to 1/2 small bore but closer than 1/2 the distance...that = FUN!

Target class is the best (IMHO). Those rifles on rams are a blast, I don't care who you are!

Chicken


PS> Billy, there wil always be a place for Dave to shoot... It's called "Match Winner"..Wheeeeeeeeee....

[GeoNLR]

"I know that I would not be happy if a year or two ago I invested in an expensive springer that complied with the rules at the time only to have it be instantly worth very much less (not much used market for obsolete equipment) by the stroke of the pen."

FYI- There is a HUGE market for springers- if you (or anyone) needs help finding a springer a new home so you can re-invest in PCP please contact me and I will do all I can to help out.

I bought my springer in Dec of 04...LOL rule was changed like next month. I sold it for more than I paid for it (paid $350 and sold it for $400- cost new =~$479) and had 2 other people that wanted it. The equipment's usefullness is by far not limited to silhouette. Those things are a tree rat's worst nightmare!

Chicken George

[sillywetshooter]

sillywetshooter now why would you attack me ? did I say something about You? Tell me something, Why are you using a "Tuned " gun in the sporter class? This class is for UNALTERED Factory guns.  So unless your gun was "Tuned" with all factory parts it can not be used in the Sporter class. Now how many spring gun shooters have been using guns that don't meet the requirement of the rule? Because the first thing that most spring gun shooters say ya have to do is have them tuned and put in a Maccari spring............Doesn't sound factory to me sounds to me like your gun is really an open class gun. Nw keep your attacks to your self.

Hi Hornet , sorry if you felt attacked i hope your ok now. Just seems like you don't feel there is  a measurable difference between the two types of guns. As for my tuned r-9 you are right i made  a mistake by not mentioning that my first couple of matches were fun shoots and there was no class distinction or nra classification going on i was just getting into air silhouette and then i got the daystate and it made it a lot easier but then i got sidelined with some shoulder surgery and am just getting back into it and starting with the spring gun again but you are right my r-9 would have to be in the open class because it is tuned and has a thumbhole stock as it shoud be and not against out of the box springers i have  a better trigger  then most springers at least thats what i have been told i am not an expert on all springers . I just feel that it would be like me shooting my daystate in the spring gun class which imo wouldn't be fair. I will do my best not to attack you instead we can agree to disagree.

[Grasshopper52]

Just out of curiosity, since I only shoot in Target class usually, and not very often lately due to school,  :cry: but not any MORE!!!  :grin:

What is the difference between the new pcp Sporter class rifles and the top of the line rifles in Open class?

Thanks

[TX Charlie]

I shot into the master class air rifle in May '89, after shooting in the first air rifle silhouette match in '85 or '86. Then and now the 10 meter  airguns and the springers are just not capable of shooting accurately at the distances air rifle silhouette is shooting.  Most days in the best of conditions it would be impossible to hit 40 off the bench with my RWS 75.  The springers I have owned and others that I have shot are capable of low 30's but to shoot the prescribed distances with these targets it requires great shooting and better luck to hit these targets. The PCP rifles are truly capable of shooting at these distances.... Why try to do something with inappropriate equipment, self-flagellation is easier with a whip.
I shoot a few air rifle matches each year and will not spend the money for a PCP, my 10 meter rifle works as long as I understand that a +30 score is shooting to this rifle (and my) maximum capabilities.  It also means with a master classification not to expect any success other than personal satisfaction for a +30 score on a good day.

[Hornetx60]

TX Charlie, Maybe I misunderstand what you are calling a 10 meter air rifle.  A 10 meter air rifle to me and most of us these days is a PCP gun. Sure it is very slow, somewhere around 540 fps, but the two I have owned where very accurate. off the bench my Steyr and Walther 10 meter guns will shoot 1/2" at the rams and less.  Now on windy days they can be a challenge for sure but that is why it is in a seperate class and I sure enjoy shooting it.  If you are talking about the 10 meter spring guns then I can see what you might mean about them being a beast of a different type. But a 10 meter pcp Target gun of any decent manufacturer is definitely a very accurate gun. Bill R