Author Topic: something is cooking !. DING , 22Hornet is (Read 1130 times)

pascalp · « **on:** June 21, 2005, 12:41:59 PM »

My birthday is past, christmas a long way forward, no father day !.

But, parcels arriving at home: new brass, new mold and new dies on the way, ...

Varminter · « **Reply #1 on:** June 21, 2005, 12:45:05 PM »

Maybe i missed something but what do you have lined up? :?

pascalp · « **Reply #2 on:** June 21, 2005, 01:53:13 PM »

Maybe, a box wrapped in brown paper with a lovely Handy inside is near to be shipped ...

In a previous thread, i submit to the community my penchant for 22hornet, no one deny this choice.

I was worried, because i couldn't find any and was thinking about going thru the hassle about import one from a foreign country.

Then my smith made me a real gift. He knew my feeling and few days ago he send me an email, he had found a 22Hornet (maybe the last imported, laying somewhere), "are you interested" he say, "for sure" i reply. And now i'm waiting and i also shop all i need to feed and take care of my new baby.

Varminter · « **Reply #3 on:** June 21, 2005, 01:58:46 PM »

Congrats on the new addition. And a great caliber choice might i add. Where are you located for these little rifles to be so hard to acquire?

mitchell · « **Reply #4 on:** June 21, 2005, 05:04:01 PM »

looks like old pascalp has one in the oven ,as they say

Paul5388 · « **Reply #5 on:** June 21, 2005, 06:15:07 PM »

Pascal,

Are you going to try to shoot cast in it too? Well, of course you are and I would have known that if I'd learn to read better! So, I'm assuming you are getting a Lyman mold, since I haven't seen any .225" Lee molds.

pascalp · « **Reply #6 on:** June 22, 2005, 09:36:53 AM »

Nothing today, tomorrow ?!

Varminter,
I live in France, few shooters, more hunters, not a lot of people interested by single-shot. Rifles are not free, only for shooters and hunters and pricey too, those little rifle cost twice when here.
A little market doesn't interest importer !.
I forget, 22H are just for a few of the few, no use for shooter and not a lot for varminter.

Paul,
you are right i'll cast and you find the right brand. Lee had nothing so i took a Lyman 225415, maybe on the heavy side for 22H, but i read a lot of good about and i've some reloads for it in my books.

pascalp · « **Reply #7 on:** July 02, 2005, 02:27:58 PM »

Finally, the rifle is here, took more time than estimated.

I'm really pleased. I was surprised by the weight, now i understand how my 30-30 is "ultralight".
It look like a carbine not a rifle and i like that.
The stock look good.

I had time to discover my new mold and dies.
I have cast some bullets, the mold is new and those tiny bullets aren't easy !.

I put together brass and bullet to view how it look:

Now, i have 50 cases with 3 different weight of powder.
I'll put a scope, a bipod, a suppressor and i'll be ready for a trip a the range.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #8 on:** July 02, 2005, 04:21:53 PM »

Looking Very Nice.....you did a nice job on the bullets...I hope it shoots goood for you...Let us know how it does...ok...

Mac

Norseman112 · « **Reply #9 on:** July 02, 2005, 05:04:28 PM »

Congrats on your new rifle. please give us a range report

.

Norse

Paul5388 · « **Reply #10 on:** July 02, 2005, 05:38:07 PM »

Pascal,

I have that same mold that I have borrowed, but haven't cast with yet. While it's a little heavy for a regular Hornet, it may be closer for a .22 K-Hornet. I believe Stuffit is in the process of locating that same Lyman mold for his K-Hornet.

Are you considering using gas checks or are you planning on keeping the velocity low enough that it won't matter?

Be sure to keep us informed on your progress.

Nixter · « **Reply #11 on:** July 02, 2005, 07:44:03 PM »

Did anyone else catch that he mentioned suppressor?

Heehee, that would be cool. A Handi with a can.

Here kitty kitty...

A suppressed Hornet might have some sting.

Nixter

quickdtoo · « **Reply #12 on:** July 02, 2005, 07:53:04 PM »

Suppressors are legal abroad, SOP for the Brits and apparently the French. They're legal here in some states.

http://www.srtarms.com/legalities.htm

Tim

pascalp · « **Reply #13 on:** July 03, 2005, 01:11:14 PM »

Range report, maybe. First the answers:

Suppressor. Quickdtoo is right, here, suppressor are legal. All my rifles are threaded, for use at the range only.

Paul, this mold cast a really tiny bullet, really far from a easy 30-30.
The mold is new and i'm more used to alum. It's just a matter of time before i'll get good bullets. I've read in the FAQ that the rifling is 12, that is quicker than the old 16 and i hope it will stabilize an heavy bullet.
I've bought some GC with the mold, just in case. I had hoped that like my 30-30, keeping a low velocity permit shooting without them. Now i'm not sure, all is little in this bullet and the driving bands too.

One hour at the range. I won't say bad but good certainly not. I begin to learn a new caliber, using the hard way, small caliber is really demanding.

Speeds were higher than expected, 1500 fps with 10% or 20% less powder than the value listed for this speed in my book. A lot of possibility, seating, crimping or heat, this afternoon was hot and my ammo too.

The barrel lead so badly and quickly that i couldn't even sight my scope reliably.

The first speeds that i had chrono'ed were good; Avg 1520, ES 4, SD 2. After they became erratic; Avg 1370, ES 123, SD 46; Avg 1476, ES 60, SD 30. Leading, fouling !!!! :x
It took me 10-20 stroke of bronze brush to remove the dirt located at the beginning of the rifling, no more than 4". I had smoothed the bore with 40 stroke of JB paste before use :agree: .

Ok, no good targets to show, who care ? (me, next time i hope some). But i really enjoy my new handi. The trigger had been worked by my smith, no problem with ejector ( i forgot to catch one brass and it jump 7 feet behind).
The feeling is good :grin: .

Next time: less powder, GC, maybe some FMJ or SP. A lot of things to try, in the casting and reloading sections before looking to improvement in the rifle section (obviously the shooter must to do his part).

Edited, question added:
Concerning GC. My barrel is .224. With GC, which resizing .224 or .225 ?

Some pics:
Harris bipod + Accushot, scope is a Meopta 7x50.

Strike is good but not centered.

Paul5388 · « **Reply #14 on:** July 03, 2005, 04:00:01 PM »

Pascal,

In my Hornet I have found WW brass to hold less powder than R-P brass. That could explain some of the velocity increase you are seeing, since you are using WW brass.

I have forgotten how hard (BHN) you are casting, but that may be more of a contributing factor than the amount of powder. Of course, you had good success with that alloy in the .30-30, so it may be as simple as too much velocity for that alloy.

Since all of the Handis are late model, the bore should be .224". We are at least 50 years beyond the use of .223" bores. I would think the .225" size, like the mold states, would be the proper size. I am basing that on the .309" that is working good in my .30-30, that is .001" larger than the supposed bore diameter. That was using a GC on a Lyman 311291, but I'm shooting anywhere from 1600 fps to 2000 fps with those.

You might want to try water quenching some of those bullets before you go to the expense of using GCs. The extra hardness may reduce the leading to an acceptable level. They say it takes a few days to maybe a week for the final degree of hardness to stabilize.

pascalp · « **Reply #15 on:** July 03, 2005, 10:28:09 PM »

Paul,

I'll investigate in one direction for my next session:
I "think" that my problem could be "free flight". I had seated my bullets with the COL listed in my books. A quick look with a bullet quite loose in a brass, show that the bullet "COL" seated is far from rifling, so i "think" that due to the hardness of my alloy and to the jump, the driving bands are worn when the bullet hit the rifling. This theory goes well with the 3 inches of lead at the beginning of the barrel.

So, i'll:
. Continue to decrease powder weight. My goal is accurate subsonic ammo.
. Increase COL, I'll try bullet touching rifling (as for the 30-30)
. Try GC, i've them already. They won't avoid the destruction of the driving bands but maybe scrap the lead !. I don't think that my problem is related with lead melted by hot gas, but ...
. Buy few FMJ, Hornady 45gr Hornet .224 will be fine.
. Resize my bullets to .225. Previous were "as cast" as i screwed my resizing order (took a .224 instead of a .225, wich is now on the way).
. Re-read about water-quenching.
. Thinking about an hardness tester.

Paul5388 · « **Reply #16 on:** July 04, 2005, 05:05:43 AM »

Pascal,

The bullet jump may very well be part of the accuracy problem, but at this point, it's probably more the leading factor than anything. Using a .224" sized bullet may also contribute by being too small for the bore.

Water quenching is just dropping the cast bullets into a can of water for quick cooling instead of on a cloth to air cool. It's a similar process to tempering steel to increase the hardness.

I don't think you've said what powder you are using with the Hornet, maybe a Norma?

I was in your part of the world back in the early '60s, when you were pretty young. Mostly in the Med, from Villa France on around, but I did make it to Cherbourg too. Villa France, between Monaco and Cannes, was our home port. www.usslittlerock.org

pascalp · « **Reply #17 on:** July 04, 2005, 10:59:28 PM »

Paul,

I agree that lack of accuracy is the result and leading is the problem.
I have to cure leading first.

I had read that accuracy could be improve by reducing free-flight.
In my case and for the moment that isn't my primary concern.

I want the bullet engraving gently in the rifling, as i suspect that the driving bands were destroyed when they hit the rifling with a high speed.
In other term, i suspect that lead at the beginning of the barrel are part of my driving bands. Obviously things goes worse shot after shot.

I use a quite fast powder. Vec A0, primary a shotgun powder, usable in pistol and rifle, i use it each time i went thru low-density reloading (if i've some data in my books). Good reputation of ignition ability even in low density without use of kapok.

I haven't shoot .224 lead bullets. I've realize my mistake and use them "as-cast" a little bit more than .225.

I'll give a try to water quenching, next time i'll cast. Casted, water-quenched, aloxed.
Did-you resize water quenched bullet ?. I've read that bullets must be resized before quenched.

I'll use GC for the next test, i hope my .225 resizer at home this week.

Hornady .224 45gr Hornet, are on the way.

I've a box(20c) of manufactured S&B, that came with the rifle to try.

I won't use Lead bullet and FMJ in the same range session.

Leisure is really time and effort consuming

Thanks for your help, misuse of tense and syntax could be confusing and boring.

PS:
I bet that you won't recognize landscapes, building trade and real estate works hard !.