Browning Phonecall Read This Folks!

[Scout]

Hey folks,  

I just called Browning and sat through about 8 layers of recorded phone system selections.  I called to find out whether the 1885 Traditional Hunter in 45Colt would be OK with Ruger/TC load pressures. (Just checking on what some of you folks said.)  

Here was their answer when I finally got to a person.  "The rifle is designed for factory ammo." and "The pressure data is proprietary. Can't help you beyond that."  Well "factory ammo" does not mean much anymore with all of the custom factory ammo out there.  Why won't they choose a conservative pressure level and quote that?

I guess I just expect too much from the company wearing John Browning's name (and Winchester too by the way).  Are they too consumed by legal speak or just out of touch with the shootin scene - or both?

I work in the aerospace & defense scene and any company that won't relase a simple spec. or capability like that does not get the contract. So, that leaves me wondering if I am limited to cowboy loads or I can safely shoot Ruger  - T/C loads listed in my half a dozen manuals.  I know what everyone says about staring low and working up. Yeah I do that. But if I know I can't get to where I want to be - no sense starting.  

This is not encouraging me to pick up that little 1885 45 colt - even if it is a sweet little rifle.  I need to know whether I can push my 300 g lead beauties out this puppy ala Paco.  (See sixguns.com )

Hmmmph!

[Graybeard]

Wal Scout the sad reality is that you ain't gonna get ANY manufacturer of handguns to tell you it is OK to use ANY reload in them. Heck TC wouldn't even admit that in the barrels they sold that were strictly wildcat calibers for which factory ammo has never been made..

The reason is they have no control over the loading practices nor the pressures and just ain't gonna play. Factory ammo these days means anything made by any company that uses all new components and correctly handstamped brass to produce ammo. That includes folks like Garrett, COR-BON and Buffalo Bore all of whom make some really hot stuff. It is factory ammo. So call back and ask if the rifle is OK for use with factory loads from Buffalo Bore. IF so for dang shore it will handle the Ruger/TC level hand loads as that stuff Tim is putting out is some kinda hot.

You do as ya wish. If I owned one, which I don't, I'd use the Ruger/TC load data in mine.

GB

[EDG]

Try a little logic on this question.

1. Think of the worst idiot reloader you have ever met then imagine what you would tell him when he asks your question about a product that you manufacture.

Next changing gears!
2. Think of the hottest round chambered in the 1885 Low Wall (it is a low wall right). In this case it would be a 243 I think. Considering that manufacturing different receivers for each pressure level would be stupid you can assume all LW receivers are of all the same strength. (No need to keep a Hornet receiver segregated from a .243 receiver.)
3. Consider the breech pressure in PSI X the internal area in square inches of the .243 case head as a safe maximum case head thrust for this action. For this calculation I have rated the 243 at 47,000 PSI to be conservative.  I got 6920 lbs.

4. Divide the  the case head thrust answer from #3 by the internal case head area of the .45 Colt. You would have the PSI permitted in the 45 case. I get about 45,500 PSI permissible with the . 45 Colt assuming the BRASS is up to this high pressure which I am sure it is NOT.
The Speer Manual #12 says 25,000 PSI max is what they used. I would not exceed the Speer data and I would approach it very conservatively but the numbers indicate the receiver can take the pressure.    

5. The give away is: a .243 case head is .470 OD and the .45 Colt is .480 OD. They are nearly the same. The ID of the 45 Colt is a little larger I would guess because you will find thinner case walls. However this small
increase in the .45 case's interior face area is not sufficient cause to derate the LW .45 Colt to the operating pressure of black powder!

This is a fun exercise but an careless or ignorant reloader can probably mess up this combination too.

 :-D

[coug2wolfs]

Browning.....&^%$#

Winchester.......*&^%$

Have in fact danced with both, to no avail of course with either

But then, since National Fabrique took them both over, s'way it's been....

Dagnabbit :evil:

Coug