Gun Enthusiasts Get Ugly in California

[Lawdog]

Pass it around.

Gun Enthusiasts Get Ugly in California Legislative Push, Lock State Agents Out of Training Facility

6/8/2005 2:00:00 PM

To: National Desk

Contact: Amanda Wilcox of the Million Mom March, 530-432-2171, Peter Hamm of the Brady Campaign, 202-898-0792

SACRAMENTO, Calif., June 8 /U.S. Newswire/ -- A shooting range here has announced a ban on use of its shooting facilities by employees of the California Department of Justice because the Department is supporting two bills in the State legislature that the club opposes.

The bills represent groundbreaking new ballistic identification systems which would give police new crime solving tools. Each would set up systems for markings on gun ammunition in California that would help law enforcement investigators track down the perpetrators of shootings that might otherwise remain unsolved. One bill (AB 352) would require handguns to include a device that stamps a specific number on bullets that are fired by that handgun, while the other (SB 357) would require that ammunition manufacturers mark ammunition with a serial number for potential tracking.

The bills have the support of the California DOJ. No California law enforcement organizations oppose the measures. In a letter to California Attorney General Bill Lockyer, Thomas S. Hause, President of the Folsom Shooting Club, which operates the Sacramento Valley Shooting Center outside Sacramento, wrote "The Board of Directors of the Folsom Shooting Club (FSC) has directed me to advise you, in writing, that Department of Justice staff, while acting in their official capacity, are suspended from using the Sacramento Valley Shooting Center (SVSC). The FSC is concerned that your staff will further your efforts regarding AB 352 and SB 357 while using our facility."

Leaders of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence and the Million Mom March are urging the club to drop the policy immediately. "It is offensive that the owners of this shooting range would rather side with criminals than with law enforcement and victims, not to mention that they are discriminating against people simply because they have a different view on legislation," said Amanda Wilcox, State Council Leader of the Million Mom March. "It is also very troubling when it is law enforcement agents who are using the facility for training purposes."

"What's next - should police who support sensible gun laws have their firearms taken away? This is un-American, and these guys ought to have their heads examined," said Jim Brady, chair of the Brady Campaign.

The move has generated a great deal of activity on internet chat sites. On one site, a person who self-identifies as a member of the Folsom club wrote "Our range relies on law enforcement agencies, mainly the California Dept of Corrections, for a large part of our revenue. So this is no small thing to do."

Another chat posting read "Every gun store, gun manufacturer, equipment supplier, and range should boycott all law enforcement sales and support." Another read "If more companies would make this stand and simply say 'if you're going to make it hard for the public to own firearms then we aren't going to assist you in arming yourself against them' maybe the balance would shift." Yet another read "We should ask our respective gun clubs to ban all law enforcement (not just the CA DOJ) from using their ranges as a training ground or for their pistol qualifications. We'll see how far that goes." ( See the letter and the comments at http://calguns.net/eve/ubb.x/a/tpc/f/545600176/m/29010985521)

The state Assembly has passed AB 352, which would give police the ability to match bullet shells at the scene of a crime to the gun that fired the bullet. A day later, the State Senate passed SB 357, the bill that will require that all handgun bullets have a serial number that identifies the purchaser. These "cutting edge" proposals are important, powerful tools for police and other states may follow suit. AB 352 now moves to the State Senate and SB 357 now moves to the Assembly.

In 2003, there were nearly 1,600 handgun homicides in California. In a typical year in California, no arrest is made in almost half of the state's homicides because police lack enough evidence to find the murderer.

As the nation's largest, non-partisan, grassroots organization leading the fight to prevent gun violence, the Brady Campaign, working with its dedicated network of Million Mom March Chapters, is devoted to creating an America free from gun violence, where all Americans are safe at home, at school, at work, and in our communities

No California law enforcement organizations oppose the measures.

[/b]

This is a unadulterated lie and they know it.  Our local police and sheriff’s departments have come out against both AB 352 & SB 357 as being unfeasible.  There are other departments in Northern California that I know of that are also against these bills for the same reason.  Just like AB 50 they will cost a bundle and do nothing to prevent crime.  AB 50 is going to cost Californians over $6 million every year for doing nothing.  Our club has come out in support of the boycott and we are urging all other clubs in our area to join in.  “The Wimpminator” and his cohorts in crime(illegal ghost voting to get bills passed that they support), must be stopped.  Lawdog
 :sniper:

[Old Griz]

:cb2: OK, put me down in the stupid column, but how do you even do this? How do you put seriel numbers on bullets (those numbers could get pretty long in a hurrry)? And what kind of device in or on the gun would do such a thing, and how?

[Old Griz]

:cb2: OK, put me down in the stupid column, but how do you even do this? How do you put seriel numbers on bullets (those numbers could get pretty long in a hurrry)? And what kind of device in or on the gun would do such a thing, and how?

[Redhawk1]

I agree with the gun club's actions. You can't stand on the fence with any gun laws. Either you are for it or agents it, and hopefully we make the right decision and support the fight agents such stupid gun laws. JMHO.  

[Dusty Miller]

Membership is $50 for seniors (over 60) so I'm going up there Tuesday to shoot and I'll buy a membership just to support these guys.  They got CHUTSPAH!

[Redhawk1]

Membership is $50 for seniors (over 60) so I'm going up there Tuesday to shoot and I'll buy a membership just to support these guys.  They got CHUTSPAH!

Good for you Dusty Miller. I like a man of action.  :-D  

[papajohn428]

Leave it to the politicians of Kommiefornia to come up with such a totally lame-brained idea, that anyone with any sense knows could never work.  Hollyweird scriptwriters know more about ballistics than any of these morons, such a thing is totally beyond the realm of the possible, yet some idiot lawwriter drafts a proposal, and Brady supports it as though it could be done, when even they know it's a pipe dream.  Has anyone asked these geniuses how this system is supposed to work?  It's one more way the leftist wackos have come up with to divide and conquer, and most of the sheeple in the Land of Leftism figure if they wrote a law over it, it must be a working system.  What a bunch of tripe!

Has anyone in the Cali legislature ever thought about (gasp) punishing criminals for their behavior?  Nah, that would take balls, and there apparently aren't any of those that work any better than the addled brains in Sacremento.  What a sorry state of affairs that this even gets ink in the media.  My hat is off to the gun club members who stood their ground, even if no one else is listening but the choir!

Papajohn

[rockbilly]

:roll: How stupid can you get?  10 million illegal aliens walking the streets, sucking up welfare, educational benefits, etc. at the expense of the California taxpayer, as well as tons of dope coming from every direction and making it to the streets. They can't stop this, how do they expect to prevent ammo from coming in the same way?

Some of America's lawmakers (?) amazed the heck out of me..............  How can they be so damn stupid?

[Dusty Miller]

Law abiding citizens will be the only one effected.  Who wants a felony on his record for owning the "wrong" ammo?  I've lived in the PRC almost all my life and now it just makes me want to puke.  This law may just be the anvil that breaks the camel's back for me.  The Oregon coast sure looks nice.

[Lawdog]

Too bad the Republican politicians support both AB 352 & SB 357(two of the most unworkable bills ever to be dreamed up).  Our illustrious  :-D  Governor Arnold “The Lying Back Stabbing Wimpminator” Schwarzenegger and his conservative cohorts in crime used illegal methods(Ghost Voting - illegal in my opinion) to pass AB 50 and will do the same to pass both AB 352 & SB 357.  People need to check out the candidates before marking the ballot.  Lawdog
 :toast:

[HotGuns]

California is out of control.

its only going tot get worse... :eek:

[Lawdog]

papajohn428,

Kommiefornia

Care to justify this?  Lawdog
 :toast:

[RupertBear]

Absolutely NOTHING good about CA anymore.. so glad I moved from there... just wish my Mom would!!!

[Nuttinbutchunks]

Yep. Just one of the reasons I'm FROM Kalifornia.

[UtahMike]

Lawdog -- the Calif legis is way out of control, I understand that, what can you do to change it.
 I just wondered are people moving out of the state and letting the crazy idiots have it.  I am surprised that reasonable people aren't leaving in droves.  Wouldn't surprise me if you have to learn another language just to visit the state.
I think tribal instincts have taken over.  It's crazy for sane people to even think that these "laws" would make any difference. They need to spend tax dollars some other way....
 Have you lived there a life time, must feel like it.
Do Calif res like paying to defend unconstitutional laws? Seems to me money would be best spent shutting the line between countries down, oh, yes, that illegal too.
What do you plan to do?

[S.S.]

An ammunition "TAX" is coming too, Just give them time.
Imagine a $25.00 box of 50 .22 rimfire cartridges. That would
kind of cut into the shooting sports. It has already been
discussed.

[Lawdog]

UtahMike,

Lawdog -- the Calif legis is way out of control, I understand that, what can you do to change it

By standing our ground and doing our up most to vote out of office those legislatures that keep proposing bills that benefit no one(example is AB 50 that is going to cost Californians over $6.5 million every year to enforce though no crime has ever been committed in the United States using one(this bill is the reason there is an un-fired Barrett M95 sitting in my safe)).  We need to start with the top dog( :-D  that term fits “The Wimpminator” perfectly) and vote these “idiots” out of office.

Do Calif res like paying to defend unconstitutional laws?

Of course not.  But when you have to fight a charismatic Governor like Arnold “The Wimpminator” Schwarzenegger it becomes an uphill battle.  He is a back stabbing, lying, deadbeat, that can swing an amazing amount of power.  When AB 50 was brought up for a vote the legislature voted it down TWICE.  It only passed after Arnold “The Wimpminator” Schwarzenegger contacted his cohorts in crime in the legislature and had them stick around until a number of those legislatures that had voted down AB 50 had left for the day.  Then using a method called “Ghost Voting”(illegal in my book) where the members of the legislature that are still there after voting at their desks run around and push the buttons on the desks of those not present.  The very next morning, early, “The Wimpminator” signed AB 50 into law.  By the way his cohorts in crime cross party lines.  They are both Republicans and Democrats.  Funny they are also the ones that keep bring up these anti-gun laws.

What do you plan to do?

Stay here and keep fighting them.  There are still a number of things that are Golden about the Golden State and I intend to keep fighting for them.

S.Sumner,

An ammunition "TAX" is coming too

They have brought that bill up a number of times in different forms and so far the score is 3 - 0 in favor of the shooting public.  This is just another area that needs watching by everyone, not just Californians.  Ever notice how things get started in California and spread to other states?  This is a national fight not just limited to California(example is other states ar now considering bans on .50 BMG rifles).  Lawdog
 :toast:

[UtahMike]

LawDog -- I take it your in law enforcement?  What percent of the problem comes from the open boarder between Mexico and the US?  I see this morning that 2 more agents were assaulted.  It seems to me that your social services are taxed beyond your ability (Calif) to deliver services.  I was serious about "tribal behavior", block by block in the state, are people scared to go out because of the gang shootings, why does the Legislature pass these stupid irrational laws. Somethings got to be pushing them to do this.  Normal sane people can certainly see these laws are not only unenforceable, but would do no good.  They can certainly see that it makes it harder to defend ones home and property?  I understand dozens of agents have been assaulted and getting worse?  Is there any way to stop the influx or is it to late? or is this part of the problem?  It seems to me, it's not just gun laws that are at stake, but our way of life....  Part of the reason Im concerned is that your problems are showing up here .... and I don't want our Legislature to get any ideas....

[Lawdog]

UtahMike,

I take it your in law enforcement?

Retired now as a public LEO.  Own my own business(Private Investigation/Patrol Operator) now.

What percent of the problem comes from the open boarder between Mexico and the US? I see this morning that 2 more agents were assaulted.

That happens all the time and not just in California.  They actually do try to stop the illegal aliens from crossing the border but are greatly out numbered.  When you see a large truck pull up to the check point and all of a sudden the back opens up, a 100+ aliens jump out and run across the border there aren’t enough agents, LEO’s stationed there to stop them.  Same as anyplace else along the border.  You take into account the tunnels that are being dug(some big enough for pick-up trucks to drive through(drug runners use these mostly)) and the smaller groups of aliens that cross the border it amounts to quite a problem.  Is it taxing our social services?  Of course it is, in every state along the border.  Do the residents like it?  Of course NOT.  But what are you to do?  Deny services and end up with viruses spreading to the residents?  I don't have the answers, do you?

Street gangs are a problem everywhere, not just California.  And street gangs come in all nationalities.  The firearms they use come mostly from black market sources so banning the sales of legal firearms isn't going to stop nothing.  This has been pointed out many times to the legislature but they want to believe big businessand those in the Legislature that represent them.  The last weapons bust I was on, over 60% of the weapons recovered came from National Guard Armories(mostly from the Mid-West & East Coast armories).  Are people scared?  You better believe it and so would you or anyone else.  A car comes driving down the street, shots ring out and the car is gone before you can do anything to defend yourself.  Thankfully I don't live in the city.  Moved away from there long before the gang problem became anywhere near as bad as it is now.

Is there any way to stop the influx or is it to late?

One must keep in mind that the illegal alien problem has been going on longer than most of us have been on this Earth.  I can remember 40+ years ago the hugh round ups of illegal aliens just to deport them.  They would pack them up on buses, convoy them down to the Mexican border and within 2 weeks after going thru all this they would be back, working in the fields.  The problem is as I see it that the labor contractors, farmers and ranchers need to take a hand in help controlling illegal workers.  Again, as in big business, it boils down to the all mightily dollar.  Cheap labor = bigger profits.  Most of the residents won’t work for the kind of wages they are paying and believe it or not things haven’t changed all that much in 40 years.  When I was a young teen I was paid $1.00 a gunny sack(3 five gallon cans to the sack) to pick up walnuts.  Found out a few years ago that they are paying about the same.  Illegal aliens will work for this low pay and residents won’t.

It seems to me, it's not just gun laws that are at stake, but our way of life.... Part of the reason Im concerned is that your problems are showing up here .... and I don't want our Legislature to get any ideas....

Your right, it's not just gun laws but our way of life that is at stake.  And it's not just "OUR PROBLEMS" either.  It's already showing up in other states and even in Congress(take into account that they are already considering a bill banning .50 BMG "sniper" rifles).  The people of California embraced Arnold “The Wimpminator” Schwarzenegger believing his promises just because he was a half decent actor.  The voters needed to have checked him out better before voting but they didn’t.  He was already on record as being in favor of gun control. gay & animal rights.  I and many others tried to show the shooting public the pictures of him going door to door in Congress drumming up support for the Brady Bill.

Now it’s just coming to light his true nature(a lying, back stabbing, dead beat).  He said he didn’t need money from big business and lobbies and yet he has taken more money from them then any other California State politician.  Don’t laugh at him as he has bigger political foals than California Governor.  The really scary part is he has the support and backing of the Republican Party leaders.  They have already proved this by introducing two bills in Congress(one in the House, the other in the Senate) that will enable him to make a run for President by adding an amendment to the Constitution to allow anyone not born in America that has been a citizen for at least 20 years to run for our country’s highest office.  I just pray that the people of California have had enough of him to not re-elect him, thus ending his political career,[/i] HOPEFULLY.  Well I have been on my soap box long enough, sorry for taking up so much space here.  Lawdog
 :toast:

[wolfsong]

Punishment for convicted felons in California? Puleeeze, get real. I work for the Cal. dept. of corrections, so I see on a daily basis just how easy the average scumbag felons have it. Concerts on the main yard? Outside food sales delivered to the inmates? Taking a day off from their work week for visits? Getting one day knocked off their sentence for every day worked (including their days off)? I could go on and on, but I realize that this would be better discussed at a different forum. As to the "identification" of hand gun ammo, well, all I can say is crank up your reloading production and buy as much factory ammo as you can afford. Just make sure that your carry weapon has  the legal ammo when these assinine bills are put into effect. I am not ready to leave my home state and turn it over to the liberals and illegal aliens without a fight. I would rather leave on my own terms. I know that's very idealistic, but, as with so many other things,  what happens in California usually is picked up by many other state governments. Stand up and be heard, get out and vote, and fight for what is right. We must protect ourselves from special interest liberals and demon-crats - oops, I mean democrats.

[hipshot300]

Just remember here a week or two back that there was a Supreme Court ruling about imimenent domain? This could be an excuse to seize a range for the public good so D.O.J. can have it?
Sounds about right for the peoples republic of Kal. :twisted:

[Lawdog]

hipshot300,

the peoples republic of Kal

Did a search of the Internet and was unable to find such a place.  Located over in Europe someplace is it?  Can’t be located in North America as there are no Communist controlled or Dictatorships here.  Lawdog
 :-)

[hipshot300]

Just a bit of old fa** anger from me.
Seems that the whole country sometimes looks to Kalifornia (swimmin pools--movie stars) and think that we need to follow their example.
Can't imagine living under some of their laws. Don't know what would happen if some of the same restrictions (the really stupid ones) came to pass in Texas.
Maybe gun owners in kalifornia need to contact the EPA and get placed on the endangered species list? Wait, cain't do that unless they promise to go to lead free ammo! :-)

[RipOne]

Things are starting to stink real bad - America not for sale at any price - HA! ...... their giving it away .... I hear more Spanish spoken around here in the Shopping Centers and Factories than English ( Minority Businesses and hire through Agencies is the stunt now ) ... never earn Medical Benefits or a Retirement Pension ....... America Corrupt and Stupid !

The Judicial System and Prisons are a weak joke - be thankful that you don't have to work in one of the Prisons. see the hate and the dirty joke every day - tax payers money pit. The punishments do not fit the crimes.

We're had ........ I think we may have a majority of losers now - just listen to the TV ..

WE are not lead by our best and we are poor at making ourselves heard / the dorks make the most noise - they have representatives, our money and our Governement.

This Control Of Good Citizens Firearms is stupid - focus should be on Hard Time on and for the Lawbreakers.

For years I was with the NRA, then it began to look like it was rolling a large stone up a steep hill only to have it roll back down again as it got near the top - over and over - money to fight my tax money. They call me all the time wanting money ............... but I want results / fired under some peoples pictures - TOUGH LOVE

Maybe we should get them focused and supported BIG TIME. I don't need Magizines and Hats ..... I need Representatives that can get it done !