Author Topic: Ever reblue your Handi barrel? (Read 970 times)

myarmor · « **on:** July 21, 2005, 06:03:13 AM »

Since they usually aren't a very nice deep blue in the first place, I though about putting another coat of blue on one. Anyone ever try it on a Handi barrel?
I did polish my barrel with Flitz and it brought out a deeper blue, but again I like to tinker

quickdtoo · « **Reply #1 on:** July 21, 2005, 06:17:03 AM »

I reblued a .30-30 barrel I got off ebay, stripped it completely with fine crocus cloth then heated it with hot water, wiped it down and used B/C Perma Blue. It took several burnishings with #0000 steel wool, but it came out real nice, a deep shiny finish, I am real happy with it.

Tim

Not a very good pic for seeing the finish, sorry...

myarmor · « **Reply #2 on:** July 21, 2005, 06:23:06 AM »

I have never stripped the blue of a rifle before, but have applied another layer to an old Nagant barrel I have laying around.
Wonder how well it would turn out for a Handi barrel with a factory blueing already on it?
How many applications did you put on your 30-30 quick?

quickdtoo · « **Reply #3 on:** July 21, 2005, 06:44:23 AM »

I don't remember for sure, but I'd guess 4 or 5....but I stripped it first, I've never got good results trying to blue over existing blueing. B/C makes a blueing remover also, but I've never used it. I tried to blend new blueing with the original blueing on my BC after the smith that rechambered it to 45-120 scored the outside of the barrel during the lathe work, but it never worked very well, I had Wayne York reblue the entire barrel to fix it.

Tim

myarmor · « **Reply #4 on:** July 21, 2005, 07:17:17 AM »

Humm, oh-well. I am looking for 2 links then and I can't seem to find them. Someone asked you about one a while ago. The one where you painted your barrel and baked it in the oven

I am sure it made a hard finish.
Also what exactly did you take off the blue with? Got a link to show me exactly what it is?
I asked this at another forum , and got no where.
Thanks Tim

quickdtoo · « **Reply #5 on:** July 21, 2005, 07:36:21 AM »

The baked finish is on Handirifle's web site and Brownell's sells Gun-kote. B/C blueing remover was recommended by my Gunsmith before he reblued the BC barrel for me. I never used it, since he said he would just bead blast it for me instead. The .30-30 barrel originally wasn't blued but had a french gray finish on it that I didn't like, so I used fine automotive crocus cloth that comes in strips to sand the finish off, degreased, heated with hot water, then wiped it dry and applied the B/C Perma blue several times with steel wool burnishing between applications.

Tim

http://www.birchwoodcasey.com/sport/index.html

http://www.birchwoodcasey.com/sport/index.html

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=1150&title=GUN-KOTE?%20OVEN%20CURE,%20GUN%20FINISH

http://www.handirifle.com/articles/parkerizing.htm

myarmor · « **Reply #6 on:** July 21, 2005, 08:48:10 AM »

:agree: As always you came through for me. Thanks buddy :toast:

MtJerry · « **Reply #7 on:** July 21, 2005, 08:56:28 AM »

Here is a process outlined by Marshall Stanton over at Beartooth Bullets.

The article is about his restoration of an old levergun he found in pawn shop. Scroll down to the part about rebluing.

Should work nicely for a handi if you can find a container the right size.

I have some plans to use this process this winter on my Super Blackhawk.

http://www.beartoothbullets.com/tech_notes/archive_tech_notes.htm/58

myarmor · « **Reply #8 on:** July 21, 2005, 09:04:41 AM »

Good article. Some cool info, and long to boot. Thanks MtJerry
Anyone else got any more information I could use?
Even if I don't end up using it one of my Handi barrels, I'll try it out on one of my Nagant barreled recievers...seeing that I have 9 of them what do I have to loose

.

thelaw · « **Reply #9 on:** July 21, 2005, 10:00:05 AM »

i refinished mine in a matte black duracoat finish to match my scope. turned out real nice and was pretty easy to do. sorry i don't have a picture of it right now to show. if interested try lauerweoponry.com. that's where you'll find it.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #10 on:** July 21, 2005, 10:06:48 AM »

Quote from: thelaw

if interested try lauerweoponry.com. that's where you'll find it.

I think you'll find http://www.lauerweaponry.com/ works better. :wink:

Tim

quickdtoo · « **Reply #11 on:** July 21, 2005, 10:16:51 AM »

MtJerry, what a coincedence, I just got off the phone with Marshall about the 525gr PileDriver bullets and my 45-120, seems like a real nice fella!! I gotta do some load work and get back to him cuz he has no data for it and would like to see it.....

Tim

Bldr Bob · « **Reply #12 on:** July 21, 2005, 10:32:19 AM »

Has anyone every had a barrel teflon coated before? I have a friend that just started doing it himself and it looks pretty cool. Seems like if you did this the gun would be protected from moisture as well as cutting down on glare.

beckerhead · « **Reply #13 on:** July 21, 2005, 10:44:44 AM »

If you were doing a handi barrel would you plug it somehow, or just dunk it? And what about the ejector assembly? You'd also have to gut the frame, and would this stuff stick to the hammer since it is clearly different metal from the rest of the gun? If guns kill people, then spoons make them fat, right? :shock:

myarmor · « **Reply #14 on:** July 21, 2005, 10:51:16 AM »

For the Teflon coating, I would think so. Though I have never heard of someone doing this. As for blueing, if you had the tanks I guess you would blue the ejector assembly and all. I have never been around the hot blueing tanks personally. The only blueing I ever did was with paste or liquid. Still didn't look as nice as dipping it in the hot tanks.
Side note-I love the blue job that Ruger does. Nice and real deep.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #15 on:** July 21, 2005, 10:51:38 AM »

Quote from: beckerhead

If you were doing a handi barrel would you plug it somehow, or just dunk it? And what about the ejector assembly? You'd also have to gut the frame, and would this stuff stick to the hammer since it is clearly different metal from the rest of the gun? If guns kill people, then spoons make them fat, right? :shock:

Gunsmiths will tank the entire barrel, bore and all, Wayne said it will make the bore last longer. The ejector/extractor is easily removed, just 3 pins and it's out of there. The frame is a bit more complicated and if doing it yourself, I would recommend downloading Perklo's trigger hone instructions to help ya out.

Quote

If guns kill people, then spoons make them fat, right?

Yup, just ask Rosie!!!! :-D :-D :-D

beckerhead · « **Reply #16 on:** July 21, 2005, 11:12:04 AM »

That shirt ROCKS! 3 Boos for Big Round Rosie!

jason280 · « **Reply #17 on:** July 21, 2005, 11:37:29 AM »

Here's what I've done on several guns with excellent results. I use plain old high temp Grill paint, which you can get for around $3-4 a can. I take the gun apart, down to the pieces I want to refinish. I spray them with 2-3 coats and stick them in the oven. Cook 'em at around 250* for 20-25 minutes, and the results have been great. I've done a Mark I pistol, and AK, and a couple barrels, and the results have been the same. Its a pretty durable finish, and looks good!

Cookiemann · « **Reply #18 on:** July 21, 2005, 10:55:17 PM »

Hey, Jason, how about posting some pics. That sure sounds a lot easier than blueing. Did you do any in a matte finish?

roostertails · « **Reply #19 on:** July 22, 2005, 01:52:27 AM »

Blueing metal is actually forcing it to rust, dunking a barrel with the bore open is not good as this will rust and any type of rust means pits.
The best way to strip any existing blueing from metal is to use muratic acid which can be purchased at any hardware store, all parts must be disassembled and the acid as it comes from the container should be diluted with distilled water.
After the metal has been stripped it can be polished with steel wool or a convolute deburring wheel on a bench grinder. if using the bench grinder method be careful not to smear any lettering or sharp edges.
The amount of polishing will determine how shinny the metal is after blueing.
Most serious hunters do not want a shinny finish on a gun, bead blasting the metal after polishing will leave a nice satin finish after blueing.
The best and most durable form of blueing is called slow rust blueing and sometimes called slow rust browning, actually it is all slow rust browning, the only difference is boiling the browned parts in distilled water to make them turn blue. when boiling a barrel I plug the bore on one end with a rubber plug and the other end I use a piece of poly tubing that will fit into the bore snug and let the other end of the tube extend out of the water. If the barrel is plugged with rubber plugs on both ends it will blow them out as the air inside the barrel is heated as the water boils.
I have blued dozens of guns from handi's to high dollar custom rifles and the best blueing solution in my opinion is from Laurel mountain ( laurel mountain barrel brown ). This product has detergents in it so it is quite forgiving if there is fingerprints or any oil residue on the metal.
Slow rust blueing is simple and does not require any special equipment as long as you do it during humid weather.

jason280 · « **Reply #20 on:** July 23, 2005, 12:51:38 PM »

I'll try to get some pics together. The grill paint finish is matte, but there is an appliance paint available that is a semi gloss when applied. Only problem with it is isn't recommended for high heat applications like grill paint is. However, I've also used it with good success on AK dust covers (which don't get very hot).

Mac11700 · « **Reply #21 on:** July 23, 2005, 04:34:34 PM »

Quote

Blueing metal is actually forcing it to rust, dunking a barrel with the bore open is not good as this will rust and any type of rust means pits.

I really don't know where you got this...but this is a old wives tale....most smiths when hot blueing don't plug the bores...My father never did...and he did quite a few high end guns for several people.Wayne at Oregunsmithing doesn't either...it actually helps in the bore...

The most stunning blueing job I have ever seen...was a custom 270 Weatherby he built up for one of the Major Car dealership owner...he called it...the Royal Colt Blueing...it looked like you was looking into a deep pool of dark blue-purpleish water...it was absolutly beautiful...I've tried unsucessufully to copy what he used to do so well...you just can't get those type of blueing jobs anymore...

Mac

high-wall · « **Reply #22 on:** July 23, 2005, 07:30:23 PM »

Great post Rooster!! some good info.
I agree that the laurel mountain barrel brown is some wonderful stuff, I have used other brands but always come back to the laurel mountain, I've also done hot bluing but in my opinion their is no bluing job as durable and as pretty as a good ole slow rust blue.
I have been bluing guns going on 40 years now and I always plug the barrel, I learned early on ( the hard way ) that if you don't plug the barrel you are asking for trouble as bluing is controlled rusting and no one that is serious about shooting wants a rusty bore.
I have seen guns at gunshows that were doctored up with that grill paint, when you get back from hunting in the feild with one of those guns you better be steel wooling the paint of and givin it a new paint job or it will start rusting the metal underneath the paint.

Datil · « **Reply #23 on:** July 24, 2005, 01:08:34 AM »

Hello High wall,

Welcome to the forum Pull up a chair and enjoy the site.
Great bunch people here, Marv.

roostertails · « **Reply #24 on:** July 26, 2005, 04:20:41 AM »

Welcome aboard high-wall,
I have seen some guns at gunshows also that have been doctored up with the grill paint, I usually see it on old double barrel's which can not be hot blued, after a day in the field with one of these guns they have the paint coming off everywhere and probably looks worse than if you didn't have anything on it.
If you are going to resort to painting a gun instead of bluing it you better get some extra cans of paint and carry them with you at all times.
If you blue a gun with out plugging the bore you will definitely pit the bore and chamber which will result in having to polish the bore and chamber which will change all tolerances.
I've seen guns that were perfectly good shooters before someone blued them without plugging the bore but after bluing with an open bore the gun would not group and developed the stuck case problem.
A lot of people can blue a gun and make it look good but will it shoot good groups after they get done.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #25 on:** July 26, 2005, 05:13:39 AM »

Quote

If you blue a gun with out plugging the bore you will definitely pit the bore and chamber which will result in having to polish the bore and chamber which will change all tolerances.
I've seen guns that were perfectly good shooters before someone blued them without plugging the bore but after bluing with an open bore the gun would not group and developed the stuck case problem.
A lot of people can blue a gun and make it look good but will it shoot good groups after they get done.

I really don't know who's been doing your work for ya...because if they knew what they were doing...this wouldn't happen at all....Yes...there are blueing methods that will pit the bores if done improperly...also.. there are several different ways of blueing a rifle...and I'm sure some home hobbyist or untrained individuals could and have pitted the bore on many a rifle and shotgun...but...not all who blue the insides do this...and as far as changing all the tolerences when polishing.....this is only detramental if it is done incorrectly,and in most cases will improve the groups shot thru it.Most barrel makers will blue the insides...namely because it puts a protective coating on the bare metal and makes it less likely to rust...

Mac

quickdtoo · « **Reply #26 on:** July 26, 2005, 05:58:29 AM »

Yup!!! Depends on the process, parkerizing for one shouldn't be allowed in the bore, but there are many bluing processes. If you want to prevent the bluing from entering the bore, a length of allthread with neoprene backed washers on the ends is all that is needed to seal it.

Tim

jason280 · « **Reply #27 on:** July 26, 2005, 11:21:32 AM »

I don't know what kind of grill paint they used, but I bet it was regular .98 cent Wal Mart spray paint. I've done more than a few guns with grill paint, and it once it has been heat cured, it has been very durable. I wish I still had the Mark I .22 I refinished, I'd take a few pics and post. I carried the gun quite a bit and shot it more than a few times, and never had any problems with the paint coming off. I don't know about the "doctored" jobs you are speaking of, but it certainly hasn't been an experience of mine.

Grill paint is very effective, expecially on guns you don't want to sink too much money on refinishing. Also, I don't know why rust would be a concern, as the finish is applied over the finish all ready on the metal. The grill paint adheres well, and leaves a nice matte finish when fully heat cured. There is no need to strip the finish down to the bare metal, so rusting isn't a concern. Of course, you still need to wipe the metal down with some type of oil, but that's the case with most all finishes. If the job is done right, there is no need to worry about refinishing it any time soon.

Quote

If you blue a gun with out plugging the bore you will definitely pit the bore and chamber which will result in having to polish the bore and chamber which will change all tolerances.

This simply is not true. I worked with a gunsmith for about a year, and he did most all the repairs in the southeast for Remington and Winchester. We reblued more than our share of firearms, and never once plugged the barrels. We used standard hot bluing salts, and never had a problem with rusting or pitting bores after the bluing was complete. Also, we didn't experience any accuracy issues. This man built some excellent shooting guns, all from in the white barrels and receivers that had to be blued. If there was any problem with not plugging bores while refinishing, I assure you this man would have known about it. You don't become a licensed smith for Remington or Winchester without knowing what you are doing!