Author Topic: FFFG v FFG (Read 1125 times)

Cmarti · « **on:** July 24, 2005, 01:12:07 PM »

Based on advice here I picked up some APP FFFG for my sidelock rifles. I have had some mis & hangfires in my TC New Englander with APP, but flawless results in my Remington and TC in lines.

I have heard use 10% less FFFG per the volume of FFG For BP. Any experiences from those shooting FFFG APP or BP from .50 caliber sidelocks? As always any input appreciated

DPRinks · « **Reply #1 on:** July 26, 2005, 02:49:36 PM »

The Lyman BP Handbook shows a steady increase in both velocity and pressure when equal volume loads of 2F, 3F and 4F are used in the same rifle with the same bullet or ball.
Do you think an increase in pressure would be a potential danger to your rifles?
Don

Cmarti · « **Reply #2 on:** July 27, 2005, 06:24:15 AM »

I played around with fffg APP and black powder last night:
T/C New Englander, CCI #11, 295 Gr Powerbelt HP, Swab every other shot, pick nipple each shot, shot APP first.

A 10% reduction from FFG (100 FFG to 90FFFG)with APP led to similar groups about 1" in low. One misfire.

A 10% reduction (roughly, 90 FFG to 80 FFFG) with black powder, expanded my groups and moved them 2 inches higher. I did not use a chronograph. No ignition problems. Even with a 10% reduction in volume
it appears I had higher velocity. No Chrono to prove it. The gun is rocking though, and I may drop to 70 grains.

Casual observations are that APP FFG and FFFG shoot similar pressures and velocities, but without a chrono it is not science. By comparison the BP produces greater pressures with finer powder by a larger margin.

I guess I need to deal with the mess of BP or Pyrodex if I want to avoid ignition problems in a sidelock. I mostly use it as an extra when the kids or company want to shoot or hunt. I tried musket caps, but the hammer will not fit over the nipple. I even ground down the nipple, but did not have success. I can't find a Musket hammer for a T/C New Englander.
I guess I have just got lazy and spoiled with the quick clean up of APP.

Keith Lewis · « **Reply #3 on:** July 27, 2005, 02:08:52 PM »

If you can find some you might try some Black Mag'3 which has a lower ignition temperature than APP. It is at least as clean in most rifles and cleaner than anything else in my Omega. Higher velocity in long barrel rifles with heavy bullets.

Cmarti · « **Reply #4 on:** July 28, 2005, 04:36:10 AM »

Thanks Keith, I will give it a shot. I live 2 hours from a Cabelas and hunt family land 1/2 hour from it. I believe they carry it. I tried to find it locally when I first heard about it, but could not. I have fun just experimenting.

Mark whiz · « **Reply #5 on:** July 30, 2005, 05:48:53 PM »

I used to shoot the old CleanShot version of APP in 2fg and found that it was slightly weaker than PyroRS or 2fg black...............taking about 10gr more of the CleanShot for a given bullet. I would expect the 3fg APP to be a bit hotter and probably within 50fps of a known RS of 2fg black load.

For instance, it took 105gr of 2fg CleanShot (APP) to but a 300gr XTP into the same grouping as 95gr of Pyro RS. If trying the 3fg APP (which I may do soon) I would start off my load workup with 95gr to see what happens. At least with my rifle, I'd be willing to bet it would be VERY close to that RS load result.

Landngroove · « **Reply #6 on:** August 04, 2005, 01:08:25 PM »

I use APP FFFG in several of my T/C, percussion, sidelocks. I have had good results, and no ignition problems. I reduce my loads by 15%, from FFG loads. I do use musket caps on several of these T/C sidelocks. T/C sells a musket cap nipple that will replace your #11 nipple, and it works O.K. with T/C percussion locks. Are you sure you prepare your ML correctly for shooting? Wipe the bore with dry patches to remove all traces of oil. Snap off a couple of caps to dry and clear ignition channel. I do this every time before a shooting session.

Cmarti · « **Reply #7 on:** August 18, 2005, 04:36:16 AM »

Landngroove, I just found a T/C musket nipple, at of all places Dick's Sporting Goods. Bass Pro, Cabelas, Gander, Log Cabin, did not have one.
The hammer will clear this nipple, and I will give it a shot with APP FFFG.
I am no expert, but I prep my shooting sessions as you described. I have just had inconsistencies with APP in a sidelock. I love it in my inlines.

Stan M. · « **Reply #8 on:** August 18, 2005, 04:54:16 PM »

I always used FFFG powder in my New Englander. Black Powder and Pyrodex. The smaller granulars would allow more powder to get over and under the nipple. I would also, as an extra precaution, tap the hammer side of the rifle with the palm of my hand to help shift the powder over.
I too fired a cap after swabbing and patching the bore. Just my two pennies but I never experienced a misfire with the method.
Good Luck,
Stan