Author Topic: How is the 357 Magnum for other than plinking?...... (Read 1486 times)

offhand35 · « **on:** February 21, 2004, 01:15:52 PM »

:grin: I have a chance at an H&R 158 in 22 Hornet with a 2nd bbl in 357 Magnum! Each bbl with its own scope, all in real nice condition.
I hesitated today because the timing (for money) is not good, but as I'm sure you understand.....I :? can't :? stop :? thinking about it!!!

Now I'm embarrassed to tell you that I did not leap on it at that moment since the whole rig was only $200.

Anyway, what kind of range and effectiveness do you 357 shooters get?

I think I'm going to call the shop tomorrow to hold it for me :-D

Badnews Bob · « **Reply #1 on:** February 21, 2004, 03:59:44 PM »

I wouldn't hesitate to shoot anything at a 100yrds but i think a 150 is max and then maybe only with good shot placement, Take it out to a Max and 200 could be relistic and it'll drop just about any whitetail walking. Mine has shot 2" groups at 100yeds with iron sights, and I got really lucky and was able to hold it straight for once.

marv · « **Reply #2 on:** February 21, 2004, 06:18:00 PM »

Offhand 35. I would jump on that in a Heart beat, I understand money
can be a prob. It is a very easy job to ream Mag to a Maxmum.
Makes it better in my opinion. just my 2 1/2 cents Marv.

Haywire Haywood · « **Reply #3 on:** February 21, 2004, 06:33:34 PM »

I've got mine reamed out to Max and I love it. My plinkin loads are 158gr LFPs at 1300fps. That's about equal to magnum max loads. It's easier on brass than the same speed in the Mag. I've gotten 180gr Hornady SSPs to 2015 fps, those are definately on the hot side.

Ian

MSP Ret · « **Reply #4 on:** February 22, 2004, 02:36:30 AM »

, offhand35, I'm not a big fan of the .22 Hornet or the .357 Mag/Max although I will admit I think they each are fine rounds in thier own right. For $200.00 all set up with scopes (what kind of scopes?)and in good shape I will say though I would try my darndest to get the money or put something down on them. I know about the money, just finally bought a Sportster in .22 Mag and if that duo you know of came up today I do not know how I could buy them immediately. Do your best to get them with a deposit or anything else. Try to get the .357 Max reamer and if you really decide you cannot get them PLEASE, PLEASE let me know via e-mail and SOMEHOW I would like to get them!!! I'm only about 3 hours away. I could be there before you knew it. Also I am sure if for some reason I could not get there others here would probably like to see them also. Try to get the money up, I don't think you will ever regret it, if not, let me know....<><.... :grin:

Leftoverdj · « **Reply #5 on:** February 22, 2004, 06:40:47 AM »

It's worth noting that the H&R 158 will have conventional rifling rather than microgroove and will likely be easier to work up cast bullet loads in. You won't be getting stung even if the scopes are junk since at the least you are getting usable bases and rings. If the scopes are fixed power and not cloudy, the chances are excellent that they are good. Cheap variables are more iffie, but some companies have amazingly generous replacement policies.

Jump on it.

Big Blue · « **Reply #6 on:** February 22, 2004, 08:43:33 AM »

offhand35,
I've heard of guys droppin' elk with .357s. It's a hunters rifle, close up 150 yards and under. A lot of good bullets are made for it, in many different weights for different jobs.
Don

offhand35 · « **Reply #7 on:** February 22, 2004, 09:56:47 AM »

Thanks for all the feedback! If that rifle combo was 22 Hornet AND 45-70 Gov't, I would have whipped my card out before I could think!
As it is, I decided that this is just one of those opportunities that I've never seen before, and as you know, will not see again (soon....) :shock:

I had just gotten a 7mm-08 Rem from SV in December, and ordered a Sportster 22LR 1 1/2 weeks ago, to explain my initial hesitation....

As it turns out, I was not quite correct on the model, it is an H&R model 258, Handi Gun III, in 22 Hornet & 357 Mag. all in a brushed nickel finish....with black open sights plus scope mounts & rings. 1 scope is a Tasco 4x, the 357 has a Bushnell Sportview 4x.

I called the store at the Blue Trail Range (MSP,RET, you may know of this place) and spoke with Dave Lyman (of THE Lyman family, yes....), who said he'd gladly put it aside for me til I can get there this week..... :-D

:-D

:-D

I don't know when I would work up my loads for this rifle, but it will be there when I'm ready......Having shot a lot of 357 Magnum revolver, I can imagine that this must be a very pleasant caliber to shoot in a rifle...

I will post photos when I bring it home....

MSP Ret · « **Reply #8 on:** February 22, 2004, 03:25:20 PM »

:-D , Congrats to you offhand 35, you have made a great decision to get the gun and I am very happy for you, have fun with it and keep us informed...<><.... :grin:

Leftoverdj · « **Reply #9 on:** February 22, 2004, 03:39:15 PM »

Sounding better all the time. That electroless nickle finish is hard beat for tough and those two scopes are about as good as you can expect on the cheap.

Awf Hand · « **Reply #10 on:** February 23, 2004, 07:32:56 AM »

Offhand. That sounds like a really bad deal on something with those calibers. Please post the seller's phone number or E-mail immediately so I can contact them and let them know what an unfair price that is. Better yet, post their address and I will drive there immediately to view their products and offer them my checkbook's scorn.

-The 357mag (I refuse to rechamber in Max) is pretty decent in it's standard configuration. I've grouped 1-5/8" at 100yrds with a 36x scope. This was using jacketed 158gr. bullets and 11.0gr of Accurate #9. I bought a Redding BR seating die and I've yet to fart around with putting my slight crimp in different portions of the cannelure.
-Watch for the Ranier Plated bullets on sale. I've found them to work exceptionally well and be very cheap to shoot a lot of.
I do a lot of Awf Hand practice for Schuetzen and I've found this to be a great gun for just this, with a real economical cartridge to load tons of on my Dillon.
Enjoy!

Badnews Bob · « **Reply #11 on:** February 23, 2004, 12:45:21 PM »

Shooting mine today I got 1850 fps outta a 158gr JFP useing IMR4227 and hitting roughly two inch groups off a stepladder I think that would be able to handle just about any whitetail. Did even better with my max.

Big Paulie · « **Reply #12 on:** February 24, 2004, 12:50:23 PM »

A regular .357 magnum, in a rifle barrel, is fine for deer out to 100 yards only, but:

1. You have to use the very largest heaviest bullets you can (180 grain) that are really well constructed. (There is a currently Federal factory load with these.).

2. You simply can't use any type of 158 grain soft point or hollow point self defense ammo. They are made to open up immediately, and will not penetrate to the depth that you need to humanely kill a deer. You are very likely to get a large "crater" wound on the animal, who will run far away and die a slow death.

3. Even though the 180 grain bullets are significantly slower than the 158 grain, they are effective. I've never shot the old 38-55 caliber round, but people have said the 180 grain .357 round is very similar to it up to 100 yards.

Just my opinions.

JPH45 · « **Reply #13 on:** February 24, 2004, 02:02:02 PM »

Haywire, what kind of accuracy are you getting out of that Hornady 180 SSP??? Have thought about trying that bullet, but the BC is so close to the XTP I thought it not worth the trouble. However, an exceptionally accurate bullet coud make me change my mind.....

offhand35 · « **Reply #14 on:** February 24, 2004, 03:51:47 PM »

I have some Remington semi-jacketed soft point 180gr intended for the 357Max that I could probably get up to 1500-1800fps (handgun rated @1300 in 357Mag.) But I'm not sure if even these qualify under Big Paulie's standard....which sounds reasonable.

Remington loads a 170gr Core-Lokt 357mag rated at 1290 (handgun), but this bullet does not seem to be available as a component.

The other bullet I was looking at is a Sierra 170gr jacketed "hollow cavity"
(specifically NOT hollow POINT). I'll have to write Sierra to find out the intent of this bullet, if I don't find an adequate description online....

Thanks again for all the input! I have shot a lot of 357 Mag revolver in the past (I don't have one at the moment) which could be pretty ferocious to shoot, but I can imagine the rifle must be pretty sweet even with maximum loads....

bajabill · « **Reply #15 on:** July 27, 2005, 09:51:01 AM »

anyone know if there still are any 357 mag barrels available

quickdtoo · « **Reply #16 on:** July 27, 2005, 10:09:55 AM »

I think the only way and best way to find out is to email or call H&R....there could have been some yesterday, but not today, if you know what I mean... :grin:

hr1871@hr1871.com

(978) 630-8220

Tim

22KHornet · « **Reply #17 on:** July 27, 2005, 02:39:32 PM »

Offhand. I think the Sierra 170 grn 'hollow cavity" is dead. I was looking at trying it out but can no longer find it anywhere, nore is it listed.

I noticed you talked about the Remington 180grn SP??? I know of the 180 grn sjHP that is listed for the max but never a SP 180 grn bullet. I use the 180sjhp in my max and to be honest it works wonders, good expansion with amazing penetration.

People seem to forget that for 20+ years that 357mag was the most powerful handgun in the world taking moose and bear across the globe.

One ? though, who is big Paulie?

?

By the way the only difference between hollow point and hollow cavity is the spelling.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #18 on:** July 27, 2005, 02:57:07 PM »

If I ever get around to handloading for my 357maxi, this is the bullet I'll be loading....

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=556754

Tim

22KHornet · « **Reply #19 on:** July 27, 2005, 03:17:09 PM »

Quick, I already tried that one and I LOVE Hornady but don't waste your time. I shot those and the 180 xtp's into wet newsprint and was disappointed to say the least. XTP's came out uniform and with a great mushroom while the ssp came out looking like an egg, got less penetration, and lost about 20% more weight.

I did notice that I got the same shot placement with these http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=532300 at 100 yds and the one's I dug out of the dirt bank held together better than I thought they would.

just an FYI

Paul5388 · « **Reply #20 on:** July 27, 2005, 08:10:05 PM »

Using a .35 Whelen nose punch makes it a lot easier to seat spire point bullets without destroying the tip of the bullet.

When I was playing with pointed bullets about a year ago, I didn't notice accuracy being any better than the pistol bullets I ended up using or the 250 gr cast rifle bullet I use.

safetysheriff · « **Reply #21 on:** July 28, 2005, 12:56:49 PM »

beside what i've seen both power/accuracy-wise from my use, i'd recommend the site www.findarticles.com ------ doing a search by just typing in: .357 magnum.

the articles they've got will tell a lot about how much potential there has always been in that cartridge, and imagine it coming from a rifle now.

the other search you can do with that site is to type in: massad ayoob who writes about a host of weapons and caliber issues. much of what he writes is for street cops and self-defense/concealed carry/and related. but he wrote some interesting things about the .357 magnum as well.

good luck,

ss'

ps: remember that the NRA "Handloading" book from 1992 shows the .357 mag' performing most satisfactorily below 40,000 cup, but its maximum product average has been established at 46,000 cup, as found on page 211 in that softcover book. this 'ps' may cause a stir, but that's what a smaller caliber magnum is capable of -- when it works out like the .357!

quickdtoo · « **Reply #22 on:** July 28, 2005, 01:19:36 PM »

Hmm, SAAMI specs shows the .357mag as 35kpsi Maximum Average Pressure and the .357maxi at 40kpsi MAP.... :? what's the story on the difference?

?

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/saami_pressures.htm

Tim

Paul5388 · « **Reply #23 on:** July 28, 2005, 06:14:51 PM »

Tim,

It's like I have been saying for quite some time. The older manuals have the .357 Mag SAAMI rated at 46,000 cup, then they dropped that down to 42,000 cup and now it's only 35,000 psi.

A person has to figure out which SAAMI spec he trusts or believes, but I just don't see any way a new H&R/NEF .357 Mag on a SB2 receiver can be any less strong than an old H&R Topper that was shooting 46,000 cup ammunition.

The first .357 Magnums in 1935, "N" frame S&Ws, were shooting 158 gr lead bullets at 1500+fps, but 70 years later, SAAMI would have us believe the guns won't stand it anymore. In my opinion, SAAMI is a joke.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #24 on:** July 28, 2005, 06:19:40 PM »

Uh, yup!!! Seems the only dependable SAAMI spec is COL for magazine length.....which doesn't apply to Handis either!!! :-D

Thanks for the clarification, I figured there must be a logical?? reason for the discrepancy, SS wouldn't mislead us!!! :eek:

Tim

stimpylu32 · « **Reply #25 on:** July 29, 2005, 06:15:10 AM »

From what i have been able to find out , the reason the SAAMI specs. keep getting lower is because the .357 mag revolvers keep getting smaller and lighter , due to the different alloys that they are being made out of .

safetysheriff · « **Reply #26 on:** July 29, 2005, 10:16:03 AM »

Quote from: quickdtoo

Uh, yup!!!
Thanks for the clarification, I figured there must be a logical?? reason for the discrepancy, SS wouldn't mislead us!!! :eek:

Tim

Tim, et.al.

i certainly am human, but i wouldn't want to hurt one of the members on purpose. no, it's like Paul5388 said, it's been a change, a couple of times, over a period of years.

think of one Loud Word when you think of SAAMI: L-A-W-Y-E-R-S :eek:
and you'll immediately remember that the older firearms - in .357 , .41 , and .44 mag' were made for High Performance years ago......and that included with canister-grade powders, not just the proprietary stuff that only some vendors can get today.

i guess you can see, from some of the Leverguns.com stuff why i used to espouse reading of Paco Kelly's articles. the one he had out previously about heavy-duty loads in the older .357 mag's was very 'telling' of how the cartridge has been degraded by the lawyers. if www.sixgunner.com ever gets the older articles back on their site i'd still recommend a thorough reading of Paco.

take care,

ss'

quickdtoo · « **Reply #27 on:** July 29, 2005, 11:45:41 AM »

Humph!!! I did not eat it all........just most of it!!!! :-D :-D :-D

Tim :wink: