45/70, IMR4227, & the short-barrelled Marlin 1895G

[Ray P]

How does 4227 work as a powder in the short-barrelled guideguns? I am starting to reload, and 45/70 is my beginning point.  I have the gear, I've cleaned, deprimed, trimmed (where needed), sized & primed 100 45/70 cases, and now I'm ready to load powder & bullets (300 gr JHP Sierras).  

I *WAS* going to use IMR4227 to start, but reading a BB search for 45 70 raises a few questions.

Foremost, AJJ advises that the need to use faster powders in shorter barrels is a misconception.

Also, those that use IMR4227 seem to use loads in the mid 20's-30's, which lead into discussion on partially filled cases, fillers, and wads.

If you do use IMR4227 in a guide gun , do you use fillers or wads?

What, other than 4227, has worked well for you behind a 300gr JHP in a 1895GG?

[Lone Star]

No guide gun here, but lots of experience with IMR4227 in several .45-70s.  It is the most accurate powder in two of my barrels with moderate loads and 350-400 grain bullets; loads in the 25-grain range shoot best for me, especially with cast bullets.  I never used fillers with this powder, but I usually tipped the muzzle up for each shot....not a hunting procedure for certain.  There is conflicting information about the use of fillers in the .45-70 causing barrel damage - I no longer use them even with faster powders and lighter charge wieghts.

For top velocities this is not the best powder as it develops higher pressure sooner than more common powders like IMR4198 and IMR3031.  The latter give higher velocities, or similar velocities at lower perssures.  BTW it is generally true that the powder which gives top velocities in long barrels does so in short barrels too.  With my 20" barreled M98  .45-70 I used IMR4198 exclusively with the 300-grain bullets and got great performance with very good accuracy.

[KN]

I have had great luck using H-322 in both 45/70 and 450 marlin. I use a mag primer with it though as I seem to get a lot of residue left in the barrel with std primers. I also use it in 35 rem, and 444 marlin. KN

[Dippingvat]

I have a 45-70 Katy barrel in Encore, ported.  I tried every powder recommended and used 300, 350, and 405 bullets, lead and jacketed.  I was about to give up when I tried 49 grains of RE7 with a 350 gr JFN Hornady.  I have 1.5 groups at 100 yards.  That load really puts the hurt on whitetails and is not that bad on your shoulder.    

[Ray P]

Thank you.  

I think for now at least, I'll set the 4227 aside for my 44 mag (my next reloading goal), and start off with the IMR4198.  If needs be, I can follow up with the H322, 3031 and RE 7.  All seem to fill the case much better than 4227 according to  "One book/one caliber".  At this point, I'm much more interested in developing an easy-loading practical hunting round than I am in a precision target round that requires special handling (tipping is for cows, isn't it?) or the use of questionable wadding.

Still, I may have plenty of experimenting ahead of me; because whatever I settle on as best for the guidegun, probably won't be optimum for the Contender with pointy Barnes bullets  :-)

Damn!  What am I getting into?