Author Topic: Wolves in New England...  (Read 861 times)

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Offline bigbore442001

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Wolves in New England...
« on: August 20, 2005, 01:27:25 PM »
Right now I am madder than hell after I read this tidbit of news.

Judge Orders Feds To Aid Wolf Restoration In Northeast
The government wanted to lump the upper Midwest states in with the Northeast in a new, 21-state eastern region, and declare that enough had been done to restore wolf populations throughout the eastern United Studies.
 
 
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By DAVID GRAM
& ASSOCIATED PRESS
Published on 8/20/2005

Montpelier, Vt. — In what environmentalists hailed as a major victory, a federal judge on Friday ordered the Bush administration to step up efforts to restore the gray wolf to Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont and New York.

“The wolves are howlin' ” in celebration, Patrick Parenteau, director of the environmental law clinic at Vermont Law School, said with a laugh. Parenteau, lead attorney in the case, said his students “did all the hard labor in the case. It's a nice victory for our students.”

Judge J. Garvan Murtha, sitting in the U.S. District Court for Vermont, found that the Department of the Interior violated federal law in 2003 when it issued a rule saying no further efforts to restore the wolf were needed.

Efforts to restore wolves have been successful in Minnesota, Wisconsin and Michigan's Upper Peninsula, as well as in the northern Rocky Mountains. The 2003 rule moved wolves in those regions from endangered to threatened. The government also wanted to lump the upper Midwest states in with the Northeast in a new, 21-state eastern region, and declare that enough had been done to restore wolf populations throughout the eastern United States.

As it issued that rule, the Fish and Wildlife Service signaled that it soon would move to “delist” the wolf in the eastern part of the country, meaning it no longer would be protected under the Endangered Species Act.

The public comment period recently closed on another rule that would do just that, Parenteau said, adding that Friday's ruling likely would result in that proposed rule being changed or scrapped.

Anthony Tur, a Fish and Wildlife Service field officer based in Concord, N.H., said the agency's headquarters in Washington would decide whether to appeal the ruling.

He questioned the push to build gray wolf populations in the Northeast on two fronts, saying it wasn't clear that the public would support such a move and that there was dispute in the scientific community about whether gray wolves ever populated the region.

“There's some scientific argument about whether or not the wolf that was originally here in eastern United States was a gray wolf or whether it was a red wolf,” Tur said. “There's scientific support in thinking it was a red wolf, not a gray wolf.”

In his decision, Murtha wrote that the Fish and Wildlife Service “simply cannot downlist or delist an area that it previously determined warrants an endangered listing because it “lumps together' a core population with a low to nonexistent population outside the core area.”

If the government had prevailed, Parenteau said, “the only wolves that would exist in the eastern United States would be those wolf populations in the upper Great Lakes. That's what the final rule (put out by the Fish and Wildlife Service) said and that's what we challenged.”

Environmental groups, including the National Wildlife Federation, Vermont Natural Resources Council, Maine Wolf Coalition, Environmental Advocates of New York and Maine Audubon Society, joined in the lawsuit. They argued that good wolf habitats exist in northern Maine and in New York's Adirondack Mountains, and that northern Vermont and New Hampshire likely would become an important corridor for wolves migrating between those two habitats.

“While wolves are an Endangered Species Act success story in the Great Lakes and Northern Rockies, the administration wanted to declare total victory based on these partial wins,” Peggy Struhsacker, program manager for National Wildlife Federation's wolf recovery team, said in a statement. “The administration was ready to announce the marathon over when the finish line is still over the next hill.”

Even if the government is slow to promote reintroduction of the animals in the Northeast, it appears wolves may be moving into the region on their own.

Parenteau said wolves are already known to be roaming just north of the border in parts of Quebec between the St. Laurence River and the United States. He said there have been several sightings in northern New England, though the veracity of some is in dispute. He also said a large male wolf was killed by a hunter in New York state last year.

John Kostyack, lawyer for the National Wildlife Federation, called the ruling a “major victory for wolves and for all the people who care so much about preserving America's natural heritage.”

Kostyack and Parenteau both said wolves are important predators at the top of the food chain that could help to keep burgeoning moose and beaver populations in check and help to run noisome coyotes out of the north woods.



SOUNDS LIKE IT IS SSS TIME.

Offline Shorty

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Wolves in New England...
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2005, 11:12:30 AM »
In my opinion the introduction of wolves to Maine could have only one purpose; to make moose and deer so rare that sport hunting would die!  Is that not what the "environmentalists" really want?  In the '80's coyotes/coydogs/what-ever moved into Maine and there wasn't an immature deer left for several years.  They killed all of the fawns!  Hunting went down hill!  Once the coyotes ran out of prey, they died back and the deer came back.  Does anyone really believe that these wolf people really care about nature's balance?     :roll:  :twisted:

Offline 1911crazy

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Wolves in New England...
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2005, 11:35:38 AM »
There was a write up over a years ago that the wolves from canada are crossing over the border into the upper part of the US and their interbreeding with our coyotes thus producing a larger wolf/yote.  The last yote i seen shot draped over a honda quad rear rack and i questioned its size? i said these didn't seem like yotes to me they look more like wolves. When everyone laughed and made fun of me i later read the article about the wolves crossing our borders from Canada.  The deer popluation in Vermont is in trouble right now enough with the catamounts(mountainlions) the numbers are way down. I know they are there because i seen them. Were talking a 180 to 200lb killing machine that kills a deer every 3 to 5 days. This isn't your common everyday bobcat or house cat.  I seen tracks only in the higher elevations and after many years there making it into the lower elevations this tells me that their multiplying in many numbers.  When i first purchased my land in '86 it looked like I91 with deer tracks and now i'm lucky to even find one track.  I would see deer at night in the fields in many numbers and now there are none.  And now there going to interduce wolves into the are too?  The predators are making a comeback in many numbers while the deer herd is falling off in many numbers they just don't stand a chance.  Everytime man touches something he screws it up.  The bottomline is if we expect to see a healthy deer herd make a comeback we must start hunting the predators soon.  There was reports of people in Vermont having catamounts in their back yards while their kids were playing.  This is not good.

Wolves aren't on the top of the food chain the catamounts are.  Did they reinterduce the catamounts into the enviroment too?  Deer hunting is over in vermont and it has been for the past few years with the numbers down of deer takin in my area.

Offline Mikey

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Wolves in New England...
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2005, 12:38:57 PM »
Wolves are in the Adirondak Park, have been seen in Schenectady County and have been killed near Glens Falls.

However, since our Encon Department says there are no wolves in New York State, then we're just shootin' big coyotes, so bring 'em on.... Mikey.

Offline Leverdude

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Wolves in New England...
« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2005, 12:57:53 PM »
Makes me wonder if they ever actually went up there & talked to locals or looked for animals. I'v got a camp in NH bout 35 or so miles from the Canadian border & while I'v never seen a wolf or big cat if you walk thru the woods & get back a bit theres alot of tracks to be found that dont look like a coyote or bobcat to me. The locals mostly say theyre out there already & I cant see whynot. If theyre in Canada theyre in NY, VT, NH & Maine.
I also read a study or article claiming our coyotes interbred with either red or grey wolves on their way here or after they got here & thats why our coyotes are a bit large compared to western ones. Either way these people are idiots if they dont realize that with the large tracts of forrest in these states predators will come back on their own. Might not see them but theyre there & IMO if I dont see them theyre not a problem. I dont think we need anymore myself.  :grin:
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Offline bigbore442001

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Wolves in New England...
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2005, 03:18:10 PM »
BigBill

It is odd that you are the first person to state that mountain lions are an issue in the Green Mountain State. I have heard rumors that they are in northern New England but all of the officials state that they aren't there.

I wonder how many have been shot?

Offline CEJ1895

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Wolves in New England...
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2005, 04:04:32 AM »
Guys - Four words to remember - Shoot, Shovel, SHUT UP!! What the bunny huggers don't know won't hurt them.  CEJ...
If I can't take my rifles with me, I don't want to go!

Offline 1911crazy

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Wolves in New England...
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2005, 04:39:40 AM »
Quote from: bigbore442001
BigBill

It is odd that you are the first person to state that mountain lions are an issue in the Green Mountain State. I have heard rumors that they are in northern New England but all of the officials state that they aren't there.

I wonder how many have been shot?


I haven't shot any yet nor have i seen any shot. Years ago me and my older brother(my hunting partner) would go up into the national forest on old ancient loggin roads.  All that is left of the old log bridges is maybe one old log that spans the spring running down the mountain.  I'm not sure how many other hunters go up that far into the national forest but our tracks in the snow were the only ones i ever saw.  This is where i seen my first catamount tracks while tracking a blackbear/cub tracks.  on this day I just happened to have a throw away camera with me and i took pics of the very large cat track with a pack of my brothers cigarette's next to it to show relationship to the size of the track.  I sent the pic to a mountainlion tracking school student and he verified it was a catamount. I can now walk into the lower part of this area where ther eare apple orchards and in 5 minutes i can find signs of these big cats(scat).  It took me many years of looking to finally see one.  I caught one in my headlites at night crossing the road infront of me.(9pm)  We had supper at my neighbors house on the other side of the valley that night.  The very next day while my son was gassing up his dirtbike it was growling at us from the ridge above my camp.  I grabbed my 357mg and went outside to see if my son was ok.  It let us know its presence was there then it left and i haven't seen it again since.  I told my neighbor about it and about a year later another neighbor up past his house has seen it too many times.  She is from the western part of our country and she knows what these big cats look like, she told the newspaper reporter when questioned about its size.  Were looking at a cat thats about 6' long with a large 4' curly tail.  I'm in awe when i seen it they are awesome.  But we must remember these cats don't exsist right? They are very elusive and hard to see. Trust me they have a predator problem with the deer population dwindling. I never hear any shots at night so no one is deer jacking as some once thought.  I did hear shots sometimes but that was a guy shooting yotes at night. I had another neighbor who would tie a piece of meat to a string to a can of marbles in his cabin. When the marbles rattled he would fling open the window and shoot the yotes. But he has long since moved away. now there is no one shooting yotes too and the population is out of control too.  My camp is in the wilds of the national forest and i see and hear some strange crap that others never hear too.  I think now there desperate looking for food and as the populations of them are growing there getting bolder and comming into the lower populated areas(catamounts)  The clock is ticking on when the first human attack will happen.  I have taught my kids to be very alert about their surroundings when there at my camp you just never know.  They have even seen mountainlions in Ct. too.  There once was a mountainlion reporting site and we had reports from all over the northeast.  We had recent reports from Wells,maine area(swamps), New Milford,Ct to Fallsvillage area(housy river area) and over near Rutland,Vt(northeast of Rutland in Chitten area) Thats the last reports of sightings that i can remember.

Offline bigbore442001

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Wolves in New England...
« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2005, 02:12:08 PM »
What may be difficult concerning the issue of mountain lions in the northeast is that they are protected animals. So if someone shoots or traps one, they have good reason to not to say much about it.

Offline jh45gun

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Wolves in New England...
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2005, 06:15:01 PM »
Quote from: CEJ1895
Guys - Four words to remember - Shoot, Shovel, SHUT UP!! What the bunny huggers don't know won't hurt them.  CEJ...[/quot


 I agree I have no use for wolves at all. Not sure about shovel but shoot and shut up sounds good.
Said I never had much use for one, never said I didn't know how to use it.

Offline CEJ1895

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Wolves in New England...
« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2005, 02:50:54 AM »
jh45gun - What ever works for you is okay with me... :-D  :-D
If I can't take my rifles with me, I don't want to go!

Offline jh45gun

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Wolves in New England...
« Reply #11 on: August 24, 2005, 05:00:04 AM »
Quote from: CEJ1895
jh45gun - What ever works for you is okay with me... :-D  :-D


Said I never had much use for one, never said I didn't know how to use it.