where does the 10mm stand?

[joshua 35 whelen]

I got a 4inch model 610 for a decent price.  I hear the 10mm is between the 357 magnum and the 41 magnum.  For black bear from 25 to 50yds will winchester black talons 200grn do the job?  Any recommendations welcome?

Joshua

[oso45-70]

joshua

I might be ok from a stand but i wouldn't try it stalking, In my opinion i would not do it........Joe

[myronman3]

it depends on your purpose.  for hunting black bear,  too small.   for defensive use against black bear, i think it is perfect.  BUT... in a 610 i think it is at a disadvantage.  the real advantage of the 10mm is capacity of the autos.  with a 610, you only get 6 shots.  with that restriction, unquestionably a 41, 44,480, or 454 is way better suited.  

  so if you are planning on going out to hunt a blackie,  get a bigger caliber.  if you are using it as a defensive only gun,  it beats fingernails.  and if you are using it as a defensive only weapon, i would load the first two hollowpoints and the next four with a 200grain hardcast lead bullet.

   my bro had a really bad experience with a black bear last year.   he carries a glock 10mm with two 15 round magazines now at all times while in the wild.  
  two weekends ago we were floating a small river for trout.  we came around a corner and a cub went running up a tree on the bank about 25 feet away.   while we floated by,  his glock and my smith were drawn and pointed at the bank the entire time until we were a good 100 yards downstream.   and i must admit, the 357 felt a tad small in my hands at the time.    we load his 10 with a mix of 180 grain flat point hardcast and 180 grain xtp's on the top of the mag (first in the pipe).  

  hopefully we can stay in the land of hypothetical and never have to test it out.  we both love black bear and are fascinated with them.  we have some here that go well over 600#.   i have encountered five this year so far.   last year i was within  80 yards of a 400# mamma and FOUR  of her cubs; while unarmed!  she stood there looking at me and the cubs crossed the road, one by one.   i sat really still, and when the cubs were gone, she turned and followed them.  awesome!  i will remember that forever.  

if your intention is to hunt them, use a larger caliber.   and for hunting, forget using hollow points.   hardcast all the way.

[Old Griz]

:cb2: OK for deer, but I agree with myronman3 and Joe—for bear, get a bear gun! Personally I'd like something bigger than my .44 mags for that! If I came across as many bear as myronman3 I'd probably have a shotgun close at all times!  :eek:

[Greeenriver]

I realy love my 10mm Colt Delta, and wouldn't hesatate to take a Black Bear with it from a tree stand over bate, but for defence from bears when woods walking, I would much rather have one of my .45SA's loaded with hardcast slugs. The 10mm is a good caliber, but it does have it's limitations, and for a pissed off bear, nothing is better than BIG heavy bullets, and lots of them!!!

Greeenriver(I would use my 10mm on a ber if I had to, but would realy rather have something bigger!!!  A fully loaded 45-70 gatling gun comes to mind!!!!)

[Lloyd Smale]

A 610 loaded with a good hard cast swc and a heavy load is everything a .41 mag is. Ive seen a few wild boar shot with them and there as tough if not tougher then any black bear and it did just fine.

[Camp Cook]

In the Bear Hunting forum on this sight JJHack wrote that for hunting black bears he would group the 10mm and 41 mag into the same category.

He would hunt with these but not choose either as a black bear defense cartridge.

He carried a 44mag!

When I'm in remote wilderness area's I carry a Colt Delta Elite or a Glock 20 10mm's when the bears are sleeping for the winter and either a 6" S&W 629 44mag or a 7.5" SRH in 454 Casull when the bears are out.

[BrianU]

The .41 and 10mm in the same category?  I find that hard to swallow, considering a 200 grain bullet is considered heavy for a 10mm and 250 grain for the .41 magnum.  Even Elmer Keith spoke highly of the .41, claiming he did not see any difference between it and his .44 magnum on big game when loaded with the 220 grain Keith bullet.   A good friend of mine carries a Colt Delta Elite 10mm when hunting and I think what it has most going for it is its relatively slim profile when compared to a revolver of equal power, making it very comfortable to carry in a shoulder rig all day.

[Old Griz]

:cb2: I carry 240-gr in my .41. Can you do that with a 10mm? (I really don't know!) :shock:

[Mikey]

Joshua 35 Whelan - the 10mm stands on its own but does not have the same power or carry as the 41 magnum.  For critters like bear over bait, the 10mm would be OK with 180 - 200 gn hardcast swcs, but don't expect the same power levels as you would with a 41 with 220-250 gn swcs.  I would not stalk bear with a 10mm.  

If you can reliabily use a 200 gn swc from a semi-auto I think that would be the best load for the caliber.  Please don't forget that bears have really thick skins and often, bad attitudes- hollow-points may not penetrate sufficiently or plug with hide and fur and not expand to stop them.  Soft nosed bullets may deform on the heavy bone structure and veer off into the 'ineffective' and leave you with an injured and really whizzed off bruin.  Hardcast swcs are your best bet for deep penetration and bone-busting and that is what you need with bear.

All that aside, jjhack has the most experience and the best advice with bear.  I would find some of his posts and read what he says about using the 44 magnum.  

On a related note, black bear attacks against humans are more prevalent than before and more often result in a fatality for the individual person involved.  10 good solid hits from a Glock 10mm with heavy loads should be good enough for defensive purposes but there is always the chance that once you get out of your treestand you might encounter another bear on the ground.  Be properly prepared.  Mikey.

[JOE MACK]

I wouldn't hesitate taking a black bear with a 10mm revolver that I could load to it's potential.  However,  a reloaded 10mm is really shaded by a reloaded .41Magnum. I've got a 210gr. load that does 1600fps + out of a 7.5 inch Ruger Redhawk.  My 250gr.WFNGC load does @ 1450fps out of the same revolver. The 10mm magnum is another story altogether. I like my 10mms just fine, but I absolutely adore my .41Magnums and use them on large (@4-500lbs) black bear all the time. If I had a hankerin' to go after grizz or coastal brownies, I'd take my .475 Linebaugh FA or Ruger Bisley conversion. :wink:

[Lloyd Smale]

didnt mean to infer that the 10mm is capable of the same ballistics a handloaded .41 mag is. but I size down 210 .41 bullets to .401 and have loads in my 610 that are everything a factory .41 mag is with 210s. Personaly i would be a bit afraid to go after black bear with them. I know from experience that they will shoot through a hog lenghtwise. Now would i take a poor shot at one with one. NO! but i wouldnt do that with my .500. Beleive me put a .400 hole through both lungs of a bear and that bear is dead! Now take a .41 mag and put the same cast bullet in it and shoot the same animal. Now who heres going to tell me that a hole thats .01 bigger is really going to make that bear drop to the ground in fear!! Personally if i was going on a once in a lifetime trophy hunt for bear or even pigs Caliber selection would start with a .45 colt and a 300 grain cast bullet and go up from there as ive seen enough game killed with .41s and .45s to have realized that there is an actual difference with your stepping up .042 in bullet size and penetration with the 300 grain bullets is enough better then the 250s that a .41 about maxes out at.

[jakes10mm]

1.  I wouldn't use expanding bullets on bear from a pistol.  Too much opportunity to expand before reaching vitals!  Hard Cast and heavy bullets, please.

2.  If I was a thrill seeker, I'd go for bear with a 6-1/2" S&W 610, but a 4" model......not a chance.  Velocity is a part of the equation, but sight radius is what would concern me.  I personally find longer revolvers point more naturally.

FWIW

[timothy]

Yeah its to bad you didnt get the six youll need the precision with a 10. I really like that 610 though and wish I had an excuse to by one. If your going to do this however let me recomend a load. Corbon is offering a 200gr hc going 1200fps and a company called Double tap is offering a 200gr going 1300 as advertised. No its not maxed 41mag but it does aproach midrange 41 performance and is probabley your best bet. You could scope it you know. Good luck!

[Lloyd Smale]

as far as the barrel lenght goes i dont think the 6 incher gives one bit of advantange over the 4 with cast bullets. Bottom line is that using hardcast bullets of proper design at close range theres not enough measurable differnce in penetration to make a difference. Most cast handgun bullets do there best in the 1100-1200 fps range and i can surely push a 200 to that speed in a 4 inch gun.