Author Topic: 410 slugs  (Read 3717 times)

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Offline panman

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410 slugs
« on: August 17, 2005, 06:18:59 PM »
Has anyone tried to shoot 410 slugs in a 45-410 barrel?.If so how did you do?.I believe it should have enough punch to kill a deer to 75yrds.Just dont know if the accery is good enough to make clean kills.Just toooo much time on my hands.pan.

Offline Ex-Cajun

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410 slugs
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2005, 07:56:59 PM »
I did a google search on 410 potency only to find stories I didn't want to hear.  One involved shooting a deer at 60 yards only to wound the deer.  it took 2 more shots to bring him down.  A 410 slug looses it's speed rapidly (mostly because of it's balistic coeficient) and stopping power falls with it.  If I HAD to kill a deer with a 410, I'd do it at bow ranges.
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Offline rickyp

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410 slugs
« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2005, 03:10:24 AM »
stay away from using 140 slugs for deer, they may work good on dog size game but nothing more

Offline Keith L

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410 slugs
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2005, 07:20:52 AM »
I would use the45lc for deer.  If you can get good accuracy (and you should do at least as well as the slugs) then they have enough oomph with hot loads to kill deer at 75 yards.
"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy."  Benjamin Franklin

Offline MikeP

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410 slugs
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2005, 07:29:10 AM »
It seems to me one big problem with .410 slugs in a .45 barrel is the slop involved in shooting a slug that is .042 undersized. I would assume the .410 slug would not get much accuracy in the oversized bore. It also offers relatively poor trajectory and penetration characteristics due to its construction, design and light weight.

If you want to shoot slugs without the long chamber jump that one faces when using .45 Colts in your barrel, try a proper pistol bullet in the .450 Mongo using a .444 case, or perhaps a pistol bullet in the .410 Magtech brass case sold by Cabelas. I've got a set of the .410 brass coming in this afternoon, but will probably use it for shot loads in my .45/.410. I'm using the .444 brass with a 325 grain cast bullet in my .45/.410, AKA the .450 Mongo. Now, that's a proper bullet for deer.

Offline jlevach

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45 colt loads in the 410 magtech brass shells
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2005, 05:22:57 AM »
How would you go about doing this? Use standard 45 colt +p loads perhaps with a filler to take up case space? use the mongo loads but in the 410 brass? also would the 45 colt carbide dies be able to load these rounds? Is the 410 brass cSES AN EASER SOLUTION THAN MAKING MONGO BRAS FROM 444 CASES? THANKS
Jim L
(sorry for the caps carpekl tunnel strikes again)

Offline MikeP

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450 Mongo
« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2005, 02:00:19 AM »
Jim, to answer some of your questions:

I don't know if the .410 shotgun brass is heavy enough to use in the .450 Mongo configuration (although it very well may be.)  That is why I use the .444 brass, which is designed to hold more pressure than I'm wanting to shoot in the .450 Mongo. And, forming the .450 Mongo brass is quite cheap and easy to do from the .444.

My first tests of the .410 brass with a full load of No 8 shot worked very well. I used the Lil Gun .410 formula of 13 grains with a Remington SP410 plastic wad column holding a half ounce of shot sparked with a large pistol primer, topped with hot candle wax to hold it all in, and the 45/410 barrel performed beautifully. This combo is enough to take out any snake known to man. At close snake-shooting range of 10 yards or less, the choke is not needed. When I'm in the field, I usually keep the choke in my pocket and out of the barrel, thus giving me instant choice of shot or solid. Usually, I need the shot only for snakes, which can be expected at any time during the hot months of the year. Of course, for targets at farther than 10 yards, the choke should be used as it pulls the shot in much tighter, which is good for maybe 25 or 30 yards or so as are all .410s. Since the consequences of shooting a solid round through the choke can be a destroyed choke, I never have the choke in unless I am expressly hunting game with shot.

For the .450 Mongo configuration, I fireform .444 brass using a 240-grain .44 lead slug which hardly touches the lands as it is fired in the big barrel, but it still flies surprisingly straight. I have used the same powder charge as the .410 Lil Gun formula noted above, 13 grains. I initially used a paper towel wad to fill up some of the air space between the powder and the bullet in the large case, but now I use Dacron, which is usually recommended for such purpose. There is a lot of space for more powder, and I believe that loads that equate to 45/70 performance might be achieved. However, since this is a wildcat, one must experiment carefully.  You are drawing the map as you go.

Relative to your question about sizing dies, I use my .45 Colt dies to resize the top of the .450 Mongo case to hold the .45 caliber bullets. Thus far, I have not had to resize the base. If I ever do, I may sacrifice a .45 Colt die by cutting off the top, thus allowing the full .450 Mongo case to be resized to .45 Colt dimensions. An alternative would be to use a .444 die, but, this would size the cases down farther than needed and would necessitate using the .44 bullet for fireforming again or using a graduated punch to open up the mouth to .45. By using a .444 die, you are effectively repeating the fireforming sequence again, which can't be easy on the case. That is why I will consider altering the .45 Colt die if and when the need arises.

In my opinion, the .45/.410 barrel in the Contender is perhaps the most versatile factory weapon ever designed. With shot and solids in your pocket, you are good to go for just about anything in the world short of some really heavy and dangerous animals, and even some of those have been killed with less. I believe it may be the ultimate survival weapon of all times. I know it would be my first choice.

Offline MikeP

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410 slugs
« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2005, 11:29:47 AM »
Spinafish: I'm answering a private message here because I did not get the other method to work well.

Your original message:

"Mikep,a couple of questions...do you have pet load for your 45 Mongo? I have been want to play with this idea for sometime now, but just haven't gotten around to it. Do you load the .429 bullets with a .444 die or just use finger pressure, how about a crimp?
I have also looked into the brass .410 cases..have wondered how a shot cup would work..and maybe using a taper crimp over a cardboard wad..I have three .410's. A Contender (and like you consider it to be a great barrel to own), a Fox BSE side by side and my first firearm, a Stevens single shot that was my 8th Christmas present ( I was 8 1/2)..last question, how do you go about de-priming and priming the .410 case?
Thanks in advance.."

Answer:

Relative to a pet load for the .450 Mongo, I have not settled on one yet. I'm in the process of experimenting, currently with Lil Gun and a Lyman cast flatnose .452 bullet weighting 332 grains. I just cooked up a batch of those big slugs this morning and will be shooting them between heat strokes in these  terrible summertime conditions. The Big Mongo is booming right along. I am happy with the results so far. It is a heavy-hitter sure 'nuff. I suspect I will wind up with relatively mild loads because I don't like wrist pain after shooting big boomers. The versatility of the Mongo allows you to develop loads from pantywaist to painfulwrist and anything in between. As someone said, it's a poor man's 45/70 if you want it to be. I just want it to be a hog/deer killer. I know it will do that quite well with results seen so far.

About using the .44 slugs in the .444 case for fireforming. I used an arbor press (a plastic hammer would do) to push the slugs into the .444 case. I use a tool to thin the outside and inside rim of the neck and then bell the neck a tiny bit, like is generally done for any cast bullet, to make sure the bullet is not damaged while being inserted.  I do not use a crimp. An alternate way to fireform the case would be to use a load of shot. The .410 plastic shot wad columns fit the .444 case quite well, and this probably would be just as good a way as any.

Speaking of the shotgun loads, as noted in my earlier message in this string, I do not use a crimp for these either. I simply hold a lighted candle over the shot, which is completely within the brass .410 case held by the .410 plastic wad column. I let about eight drops of hot wax fall directly into the mouth of the case all over the shot and plastic wad column. When the wax hardens, it provides a pretty sturdy dam to keep the shot in place. To make sure the plastic wad column and shot reach to the top of the brass shell, if necessary I use a spacer of paper towel or Dacron. Depending on the plastic wad column, this may not be needed. Although you cannot handle the case as roughly as most shells using this method, you can put them in your pocket (I keep them in a plastic sandwich bag) with the expectation that it will hold together. It has for me so far. Fortunately, the weather is not hot enough to melt the wax, but it sure seems it could at midday.

Relative to depriming / priming the .410 brass cases, I use a Lee Loader deprimer tool from the .44 Magnum. Any such deprimer would work, as long as you can get it into the case and it is long enough to get to the primer to punch it out. For repriming, I use a Lee hand primer tool, using the same shell holder (#5) that is used for the .480 Ruger, .475 Linebaugh, .455 Webley. .30-40 Krag and a number of other large-base shells. The .410 brass MagTech shells take large pistol primers, which is really convenient for those of us who do not load shotguns and don't have shotgun primers. Works quite well.

I'm still in the early stages of developing the .450 Mongo, and hope to have everything ready to go for this year's deer/hog/whoknowswhat season coming up in the cooooooooool Fall.

Good luck with your projects.

Offline spinafish

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410 slugs
« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2005, 12:14:45 PM »
thanks much..
the most heartwreching words any man will ever hear
"depart from me, I never knew you"  Jesus
We may ignore, but we can nowhere evade the presence of God. The world is crowded with Him. He walks everywhere incognito.” C.S. Lewis

Offline jlevach

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THANKS A LOT.
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2005, 06:44:33 AM »
I will be able to put this info to more use once I get my reloading bench set up again(I have moved and its still packed away) Lots of good advice many thanks.
Jim L